Thriving in the Upcoming Tobacco Apocalypse

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Apr 26, 2012
3,666
9,061
Washington State
Yeah Smokey Joe's is definitely on my B&M bucket list, I've heard they even carry a few exclusive SPC blends you can't get elsewhere. I'm just never in that area for anything. I've never been to Poulsbo just to go to Cargo Hold. I don't recall if I mentioned of this thread but I can't drive so that puts a damper on things. Overall I'm not super concerned with having a big cellar because I don't smoke very often right now, I'm more concerned with getting to try different things while I can.

Have you been to any of the B&Ms in Seattle like Tobacco Patch? I haven't been to Seattle since I took up pipes but I'll be going this spring.

If you're ever able to go there, it's definitely worth a visit. It's been remodeled twice over the past 10 years, and it's a very nice lounge. Pricing is pretty good too since it's on reservation land. The last time I was there all the SPC blends available were also available online.

I've not been to any B&Ms in Seattle as I'm usually with the family when visiting, and it's not on our schedule of things to do. I'd like to visit the Cargo Hold some day as well.

I never made it to House of Calabash, and since Steve Books died, it has been closed. I do have one of his blends that was gifted to me sitting in my cellar.
 

pantsBoots

Lifer
Jul 21, 2020
2,395
9,123
Growing tobacco is VERY easy as it's completely resistant to bugs and doesn't prefer nutrient-rich soil or high amounts of fertilizer. Getting the cure correct is more difficult in an area with dry summers, like where you and I live.

False. Tobacco hornworm AKA tomato hornworm will decimate your crop unless hand picked (small crops) or sprayed (large crops). Also, it is one of the most resource intensive plants from a soil health perspective.

Thanks,
Ag professional in middle Tennessee
 

onepyrotec

Lifer
Feb 20, 2013
1,234
9,565
Nevada
What are your plans?
My plans:
I have a decent sized cellar of older pipe tobacco tins. ---will last several years
I have a decent sized cellar of newer pipe tobacco tins and bulk. ---will last several years
I don't buy a lot anymore, not much need in my eyes. BUT I will always keep an eye on PipeStuds offerings for when he has a tin or three of a old out of production blend I really want. I will always keep an eye on Ravenwood offerings. <---micro blender of the future IMHO.

I have grown tobacco in the past with Okay results. First few times were "cigar type" plants. Last couple were Virginia varieties. Need to learn more on curing & casing processes. I will grow more in the future, that is for sure.

I have purchased bulk leaf with the intent of making a blend or two...one day I will get around to that. LOL
 
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LeafErikson

Lifer
Dec 7, 2021
2,375
21,009
Oregon
False. Tobacco hornworm AKA tomato hornworm will decimate your crop unless hand picked (small crops) or sprayed (large crops). Also, it is one of the most resource intensive plants from a soil health perspective.

Thanks,
Ag professional in middle Tennessee
True. Tomato hornworms are very uncommon in the Mediterranean climate we have here in the southern Oregon mountains.

As a farmer myself that has spent years and years building organic, nitrogen-rich soil, tobacco required no more special attention than any other crop I’ve grown. In fact, like I’ve already said, it was one of the easiest that I’ve grown.

Bear in mind, my perspective is from growing small crops across two different seasons for personal use in Oregon, NOT growing tens or hundreds of acres in middle Tennessee. Two different scales and two COMPLETELY different climates.

Thanks,
Ag professional in southern Oregon
 

Zamora

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 15, 2023
829
2,064
Olympia, Washington
If you're ever able to go there, it's definitely worth a visit. It's been remodeled twice over the past 10 years, and it's a very nice lounge. Pricing is pretty good too since it's on reservation land. The last time I was there all the SPC blends available were also available online.

I've not been to any B&Ms in Seattle as I'm usually with the family when visiting, and it's not on our schedule of things to do. I'd like to visit the Cargo Hold some day as well.

I never made it to House of Calabash, and since Steve Books died, it has been closed. I do have one of his blends that was gifted to me sitting in my cellar.
I believe Tobacco Patch is part of Pike Place Market so it should be easy to squeeze in, I think the others are a bit more out of the way.
 
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Searock Fan

Lifer
Oct 22, 2021
2,230
6,172
Southern U.S.A.
Government regulations, STG, and a changing political and environmental climate. All of these things threaten pipe tobacco supplies, choices, varieties, and access. Australia, Canada, and New Zealand are basically already on the front lines feeling the impact of the changes being made to pipe tobacco access. But does this all mean doom and gloom?

For the less curious, the less ambitious, and the less persistent, maybe? But where many doors close, many more can open. I remember my law professor once asked me how I saw the law. I replied that I saw it as a set of stop signs that illuminated an infinite amount of spaces where no signs are posted. Opportunity will always present it to those who are in need and are... to quote Dumbledore, "worthy".

Tobacco will exist. Access to tobacco will exist. Procuring it may be be difficult, but it will exist.

Already, vast cellars of tobacco that can never be smoked by any one individual in any one life time exist. These micro warehouses will in time become distribution notes in and of themselves. The ability to home grow tobacco will eventually overtake the effort required to purchase it. Topping and casing kits will be sold to those who wish to home grow. The knowledge base necessary to grow, stove, cure, smoke, and prep tobacco for pipe smoking will become more accessible and will in time create a type of barter system shared among honorable smokers. The effort to bar the door will only create an inverse tidal force of resistance to break open the door.

We are not there now. Cellars will continue to grow - this is a relatively new behavior amongst pipe smokers. Entrepreneurs will watch, learn, and find ways to fill niches created when government regulators or Nordic revengers destroy the last major hold out producers. Long cherished blends will cease, but new ones, more innovative and creative will finally be given license to be created and accepted in the void that is created. In time, pipe smokers will someday laugh out trying to think that people in the past were left believing the best tobacco blends were made by professional tobacco blenders. The days of artisan blenders is before us, not behind us. Craft tobaccos will become sought after and new names will be added to the list of desirable blends.

The alternative. Cry, scream, boycott, stomp your feet. Get mad, get even, stop smoking. To what end will that get you? You and a cadre of others in the streets making noise, complaining, and threatening threats with loud voices. The night neither hears you or cares. But as for me..., I have enough to smoke a lifetime. If I need more, I have a patch of ground I can grow what I need. It isn't very big, but several plants a year will suffice. I can learn to sun cure, stove, and case, and top.

What are your plans?
Damn ! puffy
 

pantsBoots

Lifer
Jul 21, 2020
2,395
9,123
True. Tomato hornworms are very uncommon in the Mediterranean climate we have here in the southern Oregon mountains.

As a farmer myself that has spent years and years building organic, nitrogen-rich soil, tobacco required no more special attention than any other crop I’ve grown. In fact, like I’ve already said, it was one of the easiest that I’ve grown.

Bear in mind, my perspective is from growing small crops across two different seasons for personal use in Oregon, NOT growing tens or hundreds of acres in middle Tennessee. Two different scales and two COMPLETELY different climates.

Thanks,
Ag professional in southern Oregon

The difference of climates makes a lot of sense with respect to what you stated! I had no idea hornworms were not prevalent in the NW - we are lousy with them here. Plus, the little I know about soil in the NW is that it tends towards being very rich, especially in the bottom land. Here, we're typically underlain by lean clays and some questionable loam that is nothing like the fields of Michigan where I got my start. Soil structure is easy to work with and amend here, but the low amount of organics requires constant feeding year-to-year; I cover crop religiously and till it in weeks ahead for "green manure," but still find myself supplementing with liquids and teas throughout the year based on growth habit. The State of Tennessee Ag Dept considers tobacco more resource-intensive than corn, which is saying something.

Unfortunately, the days of hundreds of acres of tobacco are gone. Tens of acres are getting rare, too. The average tobacco field crop, at least for Robinson and Smith Counties was on the order of 2-5 acres. More and more farmers are abandoning tobacco, and of the 3 dark fire houses I know of that burned down last year, neither farmer is considering rebuilding them. Sad times.
 

LeafErikson

Lifer
Dec 7, 2021
2,375
21,009
Oregon
The difference of climates makes a lot of sense with respect to what you stated! I had no idea hornworms were not prevalent in the NW - we are lousy with them here. Plus, the little I know about soil in the NW is that it tends towards being very rich, especially in the bottom land. Here, we're typically underlain by lean clays and some questionable loam that is nothing like the fields of Michigan where I got my start. Soil structure is easy to work with and amend here, but the low amount of organics requires constant feeding year-to-year; I cover crop religiously and till it in weeks ahead for "green manure," but still find myself supplementing with liquids and teas throughout the year based on growth habit. The State of Tennessee Ag Dept considers tobacco more resource-intensive than corn, which is saying something.

Unfortunately, the days of hundreds of acres of tobacco are gone. Tens of acres are getting rare, too. The average tobacco field crop, at least for Robinson and Smith Counties was on the order of 2-5 acres. More and more farmers are abandoning tobacco, and of the 3 dark fire houses I know of that burned down last year, neither farmer is considering rebuilding them. Sad times.
I’m on ancient river bottom here in southern Oregon with beautiful sandy loam. I helped a bit on some local hemp farms that amended with alpaca manure, which was interesting. Alpacas look weird. I don’t trust those ugly fuckers 😂

The bad pests we get around here are aphids, spider mites, and hemp russet mites.

I’ve never grown tobacco commercially but I think I might have even slightly overfed my plants with liquid amendments, just trying to keep them green. From what I’ve learned since I first grew it, you almost want to starve them of nitrogen so that the veins don’t get too large and you just kinda let the leaves yellow. It’s supposed to be better for flavor too? I’m not sure but this convo has made me want to research it a little more and try my hand at it more seriously.

I’m actually surprised to hear that the days of hundreds of acres of tobacco are gone. Although it wouldn’t sound like much to people outside of agriculture, farming 2-3 acres is still quite a serious amount of work for a couple of guys. Heck, one acre can be serious. Another thing I don’t think most people realize is how much food you can actually grow on something as small as a quarter acre.

I wonder how much those people are making farming those 2-5 acre tobacco tracts?
 

pantsBoots

Lifer
Jul 21, 2020
2,395
9,123
I’m on ancient river bottom here in southern Oregon with beautiful sandy loam. I helped a bit on some local hemp farms that amended with alpaca manure, which was interesting. Alpacas look weird. I don’t trust those ugly fuckers 😂

The bad pests we get around here are aphids, spider mites, and hemp russet mites.

I’ve never grown tobacco commercially but I think I might have even slightly overfed my plants with liquid amendments, just trying to keep them green. From what I’ve learned since I first grew it, you almost want to starve them of nitrogen so that the veins don’t get too large and you just kinda let the leaves yellow. It’s supposed to be better for flavor too? I’m not sure but this convo has made me want to research it a little more and try my hand at it more seriously.

I’m actually surprised to hear that the days of hundreds of acres of tobacco are gone. Although it wouldn’t sound like much to people outside of agriculture, farming 2-3 acres is still quite a serious amount of work for a couple of guys. Heck, one acre can be serious. Another thing I don’t think most people realize is how much food you can actually grow on something as small as a quarter acre.

I wonder how much those people are making farming those 2-5 acre tobacco tracts?

I'm more familiar with llamas, which front a big game - and they will spit on you! - but are quite sweet and docile animals if well cared for.

We've got the mites and the aphids and so on, but the hornworms are brutal. Unchecked, 3 or 4 of them can devour the whole damned plant to the stalk in a couple few days. They can get bigger than my middle finger and eat exponentially as they grow. Horrid things.

Yeah, the feeding is an art and a closely guarded secret. What I've heard (generally for TN Burley) is to stop the heavy nitrogen when you start selecting leaves to mature and getting rid of all new leaves after. Then, it's a little bit of P-K and some other things.

I don't know what people are making per acre during a good year, but that more and more rowcroppers are going to the corn-wheat-soy route and there is less and less smoking Burley. One Sucker for dip and chew is generally stable, but maybe I just don't know the folks growing the hundred acre crops. A good soy year with high prices trumps all.
 

MidTNPiper

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jul 6, 2023
111
1,630
Nashville, TN
I smoke around 4lbs a year. Considering I’m only 31 and the life expectancy for an American man is 75, I have enough tobacco for many years, but not my lifetime. I’m not comfortable purchasing tobacco that I will end up storing and not smoking for 45-50 years, as I’m not sure the quality will hold up after such a long period of time.
Im 37 and feel the same way. I have around 10#s put away, but its mostly Haunted Bookshop and Pegasus…which I think should have a good shelf life. I worry about stocking up too deeply in the Englishes I like, they aren't going to keep for 10 / 20 years-i think.

Ive been AWOL from here for about 6months and just found out about the STG puchases. I am going to order a handful of Bold Ky Tins.
 

gord

Part of the Furniture Now
My plans? Well as you noted in your precient post, there are those of us who are doing a little realistic stockpiling. We're a bit ahead of you in Canada, Australia, and a few other places. My favoured tobaccos are rationed, I use smaller pipes, and have a modest stockpile of what is available. I mix a lot of my own from bulk and buy at the places I can that I can still afford, mostly Native sources, God Bless 'em.

But I have to be personally realistic. I'm going to be 74 in April, and I'm the longest lived male in my family - both grandfathers died at 68, almost all of my uncles on both sides before 60 - only my father who died at 86 and a cousin who passed away at 75 got past the 70 barrier. My dad was unusually healthy all his life - I've had 3 strokes, type 2 diabetes, no cartialge in either knee,and a few other maladies. Up to God, frankly. So I don't count myself in the equation, my friends know where my larder is, and they'll get it at the appointed time.

What bothers my more than the shortage and manufactured crisis in the industry, is the blatant lies told by media and professional sources - won't go farther, ya'll (my favourite southern expression) know what I mean.

I'll leave now with a corollary to my favourite online wisdom/signature saying which is "The Answer to 1984 is 1776". I'd add to that the famous words of St King Louis IX (yes, he is beatified in the Catholic Church) who exclaimed "The best way of dealing with a heretic is to run him through with a sword."

All the best to y'all in the New Year, eh?
 

Zamora

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 15, 2023
829
2,064
Olympia, Washington
My plans? Well as you noted in your precient post, there are those of us who are doing a little realistic stockpiling. We're a bit ahead of you in Canada, Australia, and a few other places. My favoured tobaccos are rationed, I use smaller pipes, and have a modest stockpile of what is available. I mix a lot of my own from bulk and buy at the places I can that I can still afford, mostly Native sources, God Bless 'em.

But I have to be personally realistic. I'm going to be 74 in April, and I'm the longest lived male in my family - both grandfathers died at 68, almost all of my uncles on both sides before 60 - only my father who died at 86 and a cousin who passed away at 75 got past the 70 barrier. My dad was unusually healthy all his life - I've had 3 strokes, type 2 diabetes, no cartialge in either knee,and a few other maladies. Up to God, frankly. So I don't count myself in the equation, my friends know where my larder is, and they'll get it at the appointed time.

What bothers my more than the shortage and manufactured crisis in the industry, is the blatant lies told by media and professional sources - won't go farther, ya'll (my favourite southern expression) know what I mean.

I'll leave now with a corollary to my favourite online wisdom/signature saying which is "The Answer to 1984 is 1776". I'd add to that the famous words of St King Louis IX (yes, he is beatified in the Catholic Church) who exclaimed "The best way of dealing with a heretic is to run him through with a sword."

All the best to y'all in the New Year, eh?
Yeah I've always said in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and a few others the Tobaccopocalypse has already happned
 
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Sigmund

Lifer
Sep 17, 2023
3,345
32,541
France
Im counting on Kopp not flopping. I suppose they do no worse than others by weakening blends. They still make some great blends. In the worst case scenario I would continue with the pipe if all I could get was Ratrays. I dont stock it becuase for the same price I can get blends I like better but they make an enjoyable smoke. Same with some Dan blends and of course HU which is most of what I buy.

I hope telescopes is rigtht and the vacuum created by MB offers enough real opportuinty for someone better to step in.