Thoughts On STG

[PipeIT]

If a company doesn’t want to end up as a portfolio piece, they didn’t have to sell to such an entity. Keep that in mind while you reminisce…….all of these companies……..it was their direct choice.

I have smoked a number of STG blends that were just fine for what they were. Smoked some poor ones too. Smoked some bad ones from every company really. I have thrown more “Indy” blends in the trash more than anything else.

Find what you like, at the time when you like it, and stock the hell out of it as you can afford it.

I’m assuming as far as everyone understands, there aren’t any other so called better choices to sell to other than STG. And we have to honestly ask ourselves, was it really considered by these businesses as the best choice, or it was simply the only choice.

Who can actually stand head to head and compete at the same level with STG.

I did mention before the difference between Personal preferences and quality. Also, I wholeheartedly agree, that what matters, is what someone likes.

If someone likes STG, I never said I’m against it. The only thing I’ll ever be against is misleading people into believing, no matter what product they use in life, is if they believe it’s quality, when it’s truly not, and the reason why they buy, is because of so called quality.

But we do need to understand the differences of our personal likes and what is actually quality, otherwise businesses will possibly try to sell off inferior products as quality.

So is someone going for something for personal reasons or for so called quality reasons.

 

[fireground_piper]

Your quality is my garbage. And vice versa.

 

[PipeIT]

Your quality is my garbage. And vice versa.

You reply is a Personal Preference, I was not making comments based on personal preference.

I swear I really try to do my best at explaining. I was trying to make a distinction between personal preferences, and actual quality by standards in an industry.

Here is a definition on Quality;

The standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.

So, it begs this question;

Can quality be quantified by personal preference?

Quality cannot be solely quantified by personal preference. It is inherently subjective and depends on individual tastes, making it difficult to objectively measure across different people; while personal preference plays a role in perceiving quality, objective criteria like functionality, durability, and compliance with standards are also crucial for a comprehensive assessment.

So I was not making comments about; One man’s food is another’s man’s poison, or one man’s treasure is another man’s junk.

So I guess to summarize, you could say, all my comments were about;

Quality based around Industry Standards, and while STG as a business certainly has it’s own standards in place and would also follow certain standards, I’m pointing out, trying to maintain the standards of the past have not been achieved.

Most of us simply point out these things can’t be maintained, because of so many factors, leaf variety, GEO locations, crop variations, various needed materials to source, casing, toppings, and the list goes on.

Simply put, it can be difficult to replicate the recipe.

But what if we had the likes of McClelland or Murrphy back in business, what might we see now.

I’m not saying that STG isn’t trying to do the best they can, it’s just that for whatever reasons, intentionally or unintentionally, a lot seems to be getting lost in the blends.

I hope I did a better job this time explaining…

 

[sablebrush52]

Has STG ever come up with its own (i.e. new) blend?

Absolutely! Every time they pretend to be continuing an established blend.
I’ve made no secret of my disgust with their version of Escudo.

But I’ve smoked the real thing, and most younger smokers have not and don’t know the difference.
So if you’re happy with what you’re smoking then that’s all that matters.

And it’s not just STG. K owns a number of different IP’s and those don’t represent the originals.

The market for pipe tobaccos has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. The quality is not the same. But, again, if you’re not familiar with what blends were like in the distant past, it doesn’t matter, as long as you’re enjoying what you have now.

 

[Pipke]

I swear I really try to do my best at explaining.

We noticed.

 

[buroak]

What was the winning $?
Shouldwouldacoulda: I was able to buy as many tins as I wanted at less than 1/2 price.

I couldn’t get them near that cheap, but I put back quite a bit. I wish I had more Smyrna.

 

[buroak]

I need to feel I've earned what I'm paid. I "ride for the brand" as it were. If I take a man's money, he gets my best. That's how I was raised.

What a convoluted thread. Very entertaining though even the posts where the members have stayed on topic.

I work in public education. My superiors get my best whether they want it or not, and sometimes they clearly do not. The problem seems to be that me doing my best means expecting and getting the best out of students (or grading them honestly for poor work).

 

[buroak]

@condorlover1 as per Jesse's post, I nominate "Colossal Shrinking Dick Flake" as the blend name.

Shouldn’t it be a plug?

 

[PipeIT]

STG managed to ruin a blend I used to really enjoy - Sir Walter Raleigh. I have a couple pounds of the old stuff that I am working through. The blends are like night and day - not even close to being the same.

You know, this really brings up something I would hope to think many would actually realize and consider, how important it is, to look at how a blend like SWR is being messed up.

Ok, so from the smoking standpoint, most will say, if you want a simple, no fuss, easy going all day smoke, this is as easy/simple as it gets.

Good old simple Codger.

From the blend standpoint this is suppose to be only Burley.

So in the scheme of things, when it comes to processing, harvesting, ingredients etc., all these various factors, people understand consistency can change.

But in all honesty given all the ever changing variables from year to year, rhetorically speaking, should it be so difficult to keep up year after year with a so called simple blend.

And if STG can’t even manage to handle SWR, how does anyone ever expect more complex blends to ever fair well year after year. It doesn’t make sense they would…

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

Absolutely! Every time they pretend to be continuing an established blend.
I’ve made no secret of my disgust with their version of Escudo.

But I’ve smoked the real thing, and most younger smokers have not and don’t know the difference.
So if you’re happy with what you’re smoking then that’s all that matters.

And it’s not just STG. K owns a number of different IP’s and those don’t represent the originals.

The market for pipe tobaccos has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. The quality is not the same. But, again, if you’re not familiar with what blends were like in the distant past, it doesn’t matter, as long as you’re enjoying what you have now.

I love Escudo, and enjoy Three Nuns…but I only started taking pipe smoking seriously a few years ago and believe you fully that the blends have changed significantly. I won’t sit here wishing I had the opportunity to have tried them in their prime but I’ve had enough stuff to know that it’s more than possible things are going to change, possibly for the worse, as we move forward and why I’ll never push back on the opinions of long time pipe smokers when it comes to their opinions of current version of classic blends.

 

[PipeIT]

I love Escudo, and enjoy Three Nuns…but I only started taking pipe smoking seriously a few years ago and believe you fully that the blends have changed significantly. I won’t sit here wishing I had the opportunity to have tried them in their prime but I’ve had enough stuff to know that it’s more than possible things are going to change, possibly for the worse, as we move forward and why I’ll never push back on the opinions of long time pipe smokers when it comes to their opinions of current version of classic blends.

Ahhh but we have to be clear here on opinions vs quality by industry standards.

By chance did you see some of my last posts, the one where I asked;

Can quality be quantified by personal preference?

So I can only assume when you mentioned “opinions” you were discussing as the personal opinions.

Granted with all the pipe smokers back then, just as today, smokers still had their favorites regardless of who might of been considered the best by industry standards.

Codger blends in the 80s were certainly popular, because they were less expensive, and lining the shelves in stores everywhere. The abundance of codger blends everywhere is how I saw it back then, as to why so many smoked them. Granted a lot of these Codger blends are nice, but it didn’t mean they were the best, they were simply cheaper and more easily obtainable.

The easier access and abundance of pipe tobacco in stores everywhere, before laws came into place, this I see is why Codger popularity is what it was, and how it began.

Of course if you lived in a small town, or a place with a lot of tobacco shops near by, that could change perspectives slightly, but Dunhill as an example, no matter where you lived, should of been more expensive then OTC Codger.

Mac Baren, Murray, and Dunhill, these were only typically found in tobacco shops with higher price tags.

Back in the 80s Dunhill was considered the pinnacle of pipes in the industry. It wasn’t to say that Mac Baren, or Murray weren’t good quality, they just weren’t considered at the same height. But when personal opinions would come into the mix, sure, a lot of people might of enjoyed Mac Baren or Murray better. I certainly loved a lot of Mac Baren blends just as equal, and Erinmore Flake back then was on a whole new level, and I loved it.

I can honestly tell you for a fact, and not personal opinions, that what Murray did on their own blends, and for Dunhill, is not the same level of quality today that STG is trying to replicate.

Take all the various variable out of the way of growing, and processing, I believe it can simply be explained as the facts, Murray was smaller production than STG.

Murray was small production Quality vs a larger Quantity production business like STG.

P.S. You are still fortunate with the likes of Pipestuds, the forum here, and TinBids, you can still buy older blends, that will be amazing.

I have a 1974 tin of Murray Erinmore Cube Cut, and it’s absolutely amazing. The tin seal was perfect and the moisture was also perfect. I’ve only smoked two small bowls, still have a lot left.

 

[Skippy Piper]

I haven't been following the situation super closely but I'm curious if anyone has any guesses as to how much longer Mac Baren and Sutliff are going to continue producing their blends before STG takes over? I'm also nervously wondering when we might know which blends are getting the axe and which ones will resume production at STG, though I'm not sure that's information anyone can speculate on at this point.

 

[sablebrush52]

Back in the 80s Dunhill was considered the pinnacle of pipes in the industry. It wasn’t to say that Mac Baren, or Murray weren’t good quality, they just weren’t considered at the same height.

There were those who would disagree, and after 1980-81, Dunhill tobaccos were made by Murray's and some by McConnell, which was considered a top of the line blender at that time. McConnell was blending for Rattray's. Gallaher was no slouch either, and they made Cope's Escudo amongst other blends. And leave us not forget Three Nuns, nor Sobranie, which was to many the best of the best, as well as State Express. And also leave us also not forget Imperial tobacco and St Bruno, amongst other blends.

Tobaccos of that era and earlier differ from today's in so many respects, not the least of which were the depth, smoothness, and individuality, lost in today's world where one conglomerate makes many different blends, instead of many different blenders making a few choice blends and bringing their individual stamp to all of it.

The most recent example of a singularly individual tobacco blend that that I can think of is Motzek Strang when it was made by Frau Motzek, before they sold their store.

 

[fireground_piper]

Gotta be careful with those old blends. They used all sorts of fun things to flavor them with!

 

[PipeIT]

There were those who would disagree, and after 1980-81, Dunhill tobaccos were made by Murray's and some by McConnell, which was considered a top of the line blender at that time. McConnell was blending for Rattray's. Gallaher was no slouch either, and they made Cope's Escudo amongst other blends. And leave us not forget Three Nuns, nor Sobranie, which was to many the best of the best, as well as State Express. And also leave us also not forget Imperial tobacco and St Bruno, amongst other blends.

Tobaccos of that era and earlier differ from today's in so many respects, not the least of which were the depth, smoothness, and individuality, lost in today's world where one conglomerate makes many different blends, instead of many different blenders making a few choice blends and bringing their individual stamp to all of it.

The most recent example of a singularly individual tobacco blend that that I can think of is Motzek Strang when it was made by Frau Motzek, before they sold their store.

Oh yes definitely with what Murray did, no doubt. I just meant the name of Dunhill, was still looked upon, but what Murray did with their blends was absolutely amazing.

This is what I meant before, about Dunhill’s name overall for their pipes, lighters, luxury goods…

So I meant to actually imply, all of what Dunhill embodied, and all of that in the pipe world.

On a side note, for my own personal experiences, the Dunhill I bought in like 1980, Murray was never brought up in conversation, which makes me wonder, unless you were really hanging out at the tobacco shops among the pipe geeks, who really brought up Murray in regards to Dunhill’s blends. I’m sure they did, but I believe a lot of people simply saw them as Dunhill’s blends is all too, another reason why their name was big, without them even realizing that Murray was making these great blends.

 

[WirelessSmoke]

One thing I've wondered reading about how blends have changed over time, is whether anyone ever thinks any of them changed for the better? Of course it's personal taste, but I often wonder if I'd enjoy the same blends I like now in their heyday or past forms. I'm sure some of the blends I like now have been altered over the years, but maybe I would actually like the older recipes less.

 

[sablebrush52]

One thing I've wondered reading about how blends have changed over time, is whether anyone ever thinks any of them changed for the better?

Speaking from a long term view, the answer is nope. Generally, when a change is made it's because some component, or components become more expensive or hard to find. So something cheaper gets substituted.

One of the very few exceptions to that was when A & C Petersen took over making Escudo. They bought all of the original equipment from Gallaher and very scrupulously produced their version, which some smokers prefer to the original Cope's.

That's the only improved version that comes to mind.

 

[fireground_piper]

C&D recently went back to the Two Friends line. Dropped a blend, made some tweaks to others (I believe it was mentioned using better grades if available compared to original recipe), etc.

I know that goes against the doom and gloom love, but I'm sure these things happen internally that are just fine and never discussed or known.

I've had various years of English Chocolate included the latest.....all fine from I want to say 2018, 2019, 2021, 2023 and 2024 vintages. This also includes the Latakia changes.