This Has to be a Joke.

[briarbuck]

The utilities have been buying power from small power producers for close to 40 years. If you have solar or wind now, and have extra, you will be able to sell it up the line to reduce your costs.

Smart

This is the future.

Nature Mag - Fusion

 

[lraisch]

Actually, I have heard this idea discussed before. Don't think in terms of the current 1% or 2% of cars on the road which are EVs, but when millions of electric cars are connected forming a sort of giant battery.

The concept is that this could serve as a buffer to smooth out peaks and valleys in electric usage.

 

[mso489]

Okay, here's an electric vehicle question that's easy, I've never seen answered. I'm on a road trip, and my EV is running low on charge. I pull into a charging station. How long does it take to get it back to fully charged, like a full tank with a gasoline engine?

I've heard all kinds of discussion and stats about the mileage range of various EV's, but never any info on this simplest of questions. Do I have to sit around for hours for a full re-charge, or is it ten minutes like a fill-up of gas? Or do I have to read Chapter Eleven in my owner's manual that is predictably obtuse.

 

[smokeymo]

1. From engineering point of view, at a high level this solution is feasible

2. I would not know whether it is viable as there are multiple engineering problems to solve here, including economics, line losses, etc… I would assume there will be engineering studies to make this viable, including break even point

3. Let specialists do their job. There is a reason they are specialists. Generally specialists get paid because they make things happen for the rest of us, and non specialists do not generally get paid to critic that things would not happen without understanding the problem

This post is incredibly short-sighted and naive.
The question isn't about feasibility, it is about government overreach. Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD.
The blind following of "specialists" is a cancer of society. It simply exists because people are lazy and would rather not learn what is going on themselves. "Science" as an institution has become a religion. Science is perpetually wrong and thus evolves. When scientists and engineers no longer admit they are wrong, they are now simply figureheads directing sheep like this guy who blindly follow self-proclaimed experts.

 

[smokeymo]

Feasibility is not the issue. Selling power to the grid already exists. This has 0 to do with engineering. This has to do with the power company being able to control your mobility and energy at their whim. Payment or not.

 

[anotherbob]

my assumption is bad reporting either like 90 percent of these stories it's reported by someone who doesn't understand the the thing their reporting in this case technology and policy. There are reporters that do understand these things but they don't get headline stories. Their work is relegated to the ghettos of either magazines that have a narrow circulation or those pages of the newspaper most people throw out. So the story is most likely written by someone who is less qualified to comment on this then we are to make comments on it.
For one like people said I am sure there is some kind of compensation for helping out. And it makes sense and wouldn't even take that much energy from each car. From my understanding high energy demand periods are less efficient per kilowatt. And that plans like this are less about the amount of kilowatts being used but spreading out the burden of ramping up the energy output that quickly. I guess while not perfect the best comparison I can make is if you have to lift something heavy each person who helps reduces the cost on everyone elses system. The idea has more to do with reducing the costly burden of ramping up energy production to meet that demand. Seriously if you want a headache inducing, mind blowing, and surprisingly interesting read look up some dry technical papers about what happens at power stations and with the grid when there are short spikes in energy use. After reading that I suddenly understood why when I work 2nd shift (like I do now) and most of my at home doings go on when most people are sleeping why my electric bill goes down noticeably. Which is one ironic thing about this. Is even if there is no overt payment to the people whose cars are used this way it will still save them money. Why because the best rule to follow in life is after every single explanation to add the caveat of "of course it's more complicated then that" because it always is. What makes a pipe a great smoker? Blah and blah and blah and of course it's more complicated then that in some way.

 

[anotherbob]

Okay, here's an electric vehicle question that's easy, I've never seen answered. I'm on a road trip, and my EV is running low on charge. I pull into a charging station. How long does it take to get it back to fully charged, like a full tank with a gasoline engine?

I've heard all kinds of discussion and stats about the mileage range of various EV's, but never any info on this simplest of questions. Do I have to sit around for hours for a full re-charge, or is it ten minutes like a fill-up of gas? Or do I have to read Chapter Eleven in my owner's manual that is predictably obtuse.

the real question is what levels of efficiency will it reach when these become more common and suddenly more and more people are working on every single issue with them. Kind of like how you could ask similar question about gas powered cars and see what effects on every single aspect of gas powered cars having them be a common household item has had.
One thing is sure that what we have now will be considered inefficient and pretty garbage in many ways compared to what will be normal when electric vehicles are common.
I also think that as gas becomes more expensive as more cost goes into just getting the stuff more and more people will chose to go electric. Who knows but that's what I'd place my bet on at this point.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

my assumption is bad reporting either like 90 percent of these stories it's reported by someone who doesn't understand the the thing their reporting in this case technology and policy.

The actual news stories about it are right on point.

FWIW, I don't know anything about electric cars, but selling back solar and the relatively low cost of using it is one of the reasons we've had a large increase in commercial and residential installations in our area the past few years. The electric utility promotes it, and along with the wind stuff on the grid (can't stand the windmills personally on our pristine prairie, lol) it all really helps with peak demand times and has a positive impact on overall rates.

 

[cshubhra]

This post is incredibly short-sighted and naive.
The question isn't about feasibility, it is about government overreach. Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD.
The blind following of "specialists" is a cancer of society. It simply exists because people are lazy and would rather not learn what is going on themselves. "Science" as an institution has become a religion. Science is perpetually wrong and thus evolves. When scientists and engineers no longer admit they are wrong, they are now simply figureheads directing sheep like this guy who blindly follow self-proclaimed experts.

I have read your post. I have nothing to respond ? Have a great day!

 

[briarbuck]

the real question is what levels of efficiency will it reach when these become more common and suddenly more and more people are working on every single issue with them. Kind of like how you could ask similar question about gas powered cars and see what effects on every single aspect of gas powered cars having them be a common household item has had.
One thing is sure that what we have now will be considered inefficient and pretty garbage in many ways compared to what will be normal when electric vehicles are common.
I also think that as gas becomes more expensive as more cost goes into just getting the stuff more and more people will chose to go electric. Who knows but that's what I'd place my bet on at this point.

With fission they are projecting that they will get a value of > 1 to 1 within 10 years. If they can achieve that, we could have an unlimited supply of energy with zero o2 emissions.

 

[anotherbob]

The actual news stories about it are right on point.

FWIW, I don't know anything about electric cars, but selling back solar and the relatively low cost of using it is one of the reasons we've had a large increase in commercial and residential installations in our area the past few years. The electric utility promotes it, and along with the wind stuff on the grid (can't stand the windmills personally on our pristine prairie, lol) it all really helps with peak demand times and has a positive impact on overall rates.

kind of reminds me of what a lot of environmentalists have said. That at the least the alternatives have to be able to economically compete with the current standard to even have a chance. But to have a real chance they have to also have a strong economic incentive as well. Which is funny because as time has gone on that statement has stuck but went from a very grim thing to a it's making us feel like it's gonna happen.
For example at my work we have a fleet of electric cars that are powered by two not even that big solar panels that are each smaller then a billboard (but about the size you probably think a billboard is if you've never climbed up on one cause you're an idiot).

 

[anotherbob]

With fission they are projecting that they will get a value of > 1 to 1 within 10 years. If they can achieve that, we will have an unlimited supply of energy with zero o2 emissions.

well I hope you're right and I hope they're right. Cause that would be great. Though the skeptic in me is thinking yeah and that's gonna be thing that opens up that portal to hell. Which honestly the worst part about that is we will all be unemployed with an year as demons don't need to sleep (well most of them, some that's all they do) but they're way more competent then humans like way more. The best comparison would be human compared to hamster and I don't think any of us work with any hamsters.

 

[fireground_piper]

My biggest complaint with electric is the push is backwards. In most real world things, you create the foundation and then build out from there. In the world of electrifying everything, they’ve pushed the end user transition on many things without fortifying the central power generation and distribution to a proper size and reliability.

Things like this are patches to the larger issue of a backwards pathway where we started at the end game. It’s not that they are bad or anything, but it still leaves open the issue of an electrified society with an unreliable centralized power.

 

[cshubhra]

My biggest complaint with electric is the push is backwards. In most real world things, you create the foundation and then build out from there. In the world of electrifying everything, they’ve pushed the end user transition on many things without fortifying the central power generation and distribution to a proper size and reliability.

Things like this are patches to the larger issue of a backwards pathway where we started at the end game. It’s not that they are bad or anything, but it still leaves open the issue of an electrified society with an unreliable centralized power.

One of the interesting problems of power systems engineering is to forecast for spikes in load and to keep the system stable under load. This would mean that there needs to be reserve capacities connected, which are not running at full capacity yet consuming both capital and operational expenses. This is inefficient. The next part was to connect multiple power systems into grids to make the overall grid more stable due to better operational efficiency. Unfortunately when we test the limits of the grid, the individual power systems fail like Dominos. One solution to this is of course to add more reserve which is costly. Another solution is of course these decentralized generation which will make the grid more stable with less expenses.

 

[mso489]

I hate to be a tiresome kid, but how long does it take to fully charge an EV if it has nearly no charge left, like on a road trip?

 

[lraisch]

Okay, here's an electric vehicle question that's easy, I've never seen answered. I'm on a road trip, and my EV is running low on charge. I pull into a charging station. How long does it take to get it back to fully charged, like a full tank with a gasoline engine?

I've heard all kinds of discussion and stats about the mileage range of various EV's, but never any info on this simplest of questions. Do I have to sit around for hours for a full re-charge, or is it ten minutes like a fill-up of gas? Or do I have to read Chapter Eleven in my owner's manual that is predictably obtuse.

Of course, as someone already commented in this thread, "it's complicated".

There are multiple answers depending on the vehicle and the charging station. Charging stations are rated as Level one, two, and so on. Depending on which of those variables are involved, charging time may be 12 hours or less than 20 minutes. Recharging a Hyundai Ioniq 5 from 20% to 80% (optimal) is 15 minutes, for a Tesla model 3 it is 31 minutes. As battery technology evolves and higher current capacity chargers are fielded, that time will continue to improve.

 

[kcghost]

If the Gummit sees a chance to tax something they will be johnny-on-the-spot.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

I hate to be a tiresome kid, but how long does it take to fully charge an EV if it has nearly no charge left, like on a road trip?

For now the real answer is don't go on road trips with an EV.

I'm confident that gasoline powered cars will never be obsolete for the bulk of the world, the question is downtown gridlock.

The long answer is fully charging a lithium battery takes a long time and is not efficient, basically above 70% capacity your battery has to be trickle charged, but you can get up to 50% capacity fairly quickly, ideally you want the battery to stay within the 30%-70% range and the most efficient way to travel long distance will be stopping to quick charge at intervals of half your total range. For the U.K. and short inter city routes this will work well, but as-is interstate travel is practically out of the question.

 

[timelord]

During my morning read of the news and of the front covers of the day's newspapers I spied this front page story from the Daily Telegraph, a popular and much respected (by some) broadsheet. It goes thus...

"Parked E-Cars Could Charge National Grid"
"Electric car owners could be called upon to help Britain avoid an energy crunch as suppliers prepare tariffs allowing them to draw power from parked vehicles at times of low supply of high demand. Cars charging on driveways are to be plugged into a system responsible for balancing the National Grid for the first time. If successful, it may pave the way for millions of electric cars to act as a giant battery so that supply is stable at times of low wind speeds after the transition to green energy. Full story page 6."

....apart from the ludicrous idea that cars might supply sufficient energy to power the nation, the idea is unbelievably corrupt.....akin to the government syphoning off petrol from modern cars whenever it suits them for whatever reason.

An early April Fool joke perhaps or just another sign of the totally mad times we now live in?

Regards,

Jay.

Not sure about "much respected" but then I read the Guardian But I agree with you; bonkers.

Strikes me that whoever came up with this ludicrous idea has either been at the wacky backy or possibly one of the (alleged) No. 10 parties. Certainly they haven't thought this through... ...take the power from the car overnight 'cos it's not being used - sounds great until you need to use the car for an emergency and you can't.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Actually, I have heard this idea discussed before. Don't think in terms of the current 1% or 2% of cars on the road which are EVs, but when millions of electric cars are connected forming a sort of giant battery."

And how many millions of cars would be needed to power your average sized steelworks, glassworks, cement works etc? There are many industries out there that consume incredible amounts of electricity.....and that's without considering the humble house person.

"Not sure about "much respected" but then I read the Guardian..."

Timelord, I did qualify that statement with 'by some' so that surely gets me off the hook?

Regards,

Jay.