They Don't Build Warships Like They Used To

[mso489]

I'm a Vietnam era enlisted sailor who served on the U.S.S. Gallant MSO 489. minesweeper ocean-going. The ship's hull was made of Washington Spruce in Tacoma in the 1950's; I first saluted the quarterdeck to serve in 1969; and it was eventually sold to the Taiwanese navy in the 1990's, renamed. We didn't do any minesweeping but served in the combat zone doing patrol and reconnaissance. The current ship that does these kinds of duties is the Littoral Combat Ship, in two different versions, steel hulled and aluminum hulled. They are currently undergoing review of 32 systems problems and have been put under the command of a one-star admiral activated from the reserves. I wish the admiral and especially his officers and enlisted men success with their upgrading of these ships. The ship I was on was based on a totally traditional model and technology, the wooden hulled ship. These current LCS's were entirely conceived as state-of-the-art ship designs with many new concepts like exchangeable modules to be installed for different assignments. We did multiple functions more or less with the ship we had. We had one ongoing system malfunction that I knew of, the pitch system that varied the angle of the propeller blades to control the speed and power of thrust. These were never right, and time was spent mid-Pacific, at Guam, to correct this, which was never entirely accomplished. Fair winds and following seas to my successors aboard these current ships.

 

[kcghost]

Let's hope they get it figured out.

 

[mso489]

Nautical engineering can be like architecture. The prototype can look thrilling, but can you live in it? Fight in it? The crews are by now well-educated in a wide variety of jobs and technologies, but they can't redesign the ships. It might be that a simpler platform, although probably not a wood hull, will serve the purpose better.

 

[bullet08]

Upgrades are more for the people selling parts. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[mso489]

It sounds to me ... reading between the lines of Navy p.r. ... that there are definite malfunctions. These ships were designed to do it all, and not surprisingly, they don't. I served with a lot of good people which is why I didn't drown, get blow away, or otherwise dispatched, so I'm hoping the best for the crews on these ships. That's some hard work and rough living.

 

[bullet08]

It sounds to me ... reading between the lines of Navy p.r. ... that there are definite malfunctions. These ships were designed to do it all, and not surprisingly, they don't. I served with a lot of good people which is why I didn't drown, get blow away, or otherwise dispatched, so I'm hoping the best for the crews on these ships. That's some hard work and rough living.

One of my niece just got out of OCS and in nuclear engineering degree program payed by the navy. For her sake, I hope all these programs for new weapon systems are little more robust. She's been under the ocean in subs for 6 months at a time. Bad time for any malfunction.

Talking about which, a good friend of mine served during first Gulf war. Found out later, the ship he was on had radiation leak. Ended up with a lot of medical issues physically and mentally. Haven't talk to him in ages. After he got married, lost contact.

 

[Derby]

I'm a Vietnam era enlisted sailor who served on the U.S.S. Gallant MSO 489. minesweeper ocean-going. The ship's hull was made of Washington Spruce in Tacoma in the 1950's; I first saluted the quarterdeck to serve in 1969; and it was eventually sold to the Taiwanese navy in the 1990's, renamed. We didn't do any minesweeping but served in the combat zone doing patrol and reconnaissance. The current ship that does these kinds of duties is the Littoral Combat Ship, in two different versions, steel hulled and aluminum hulled. They are currently undergoing review of 32 systems problems and have been put under the command of a one-star admiral activated from the reserves. I wish the admiral and especially his officers and enlisted men success with their upgrading of these ships. The ship I was on was based on a totally traditional model and technology, the wooden hulled ship. These current LCS's were entirely conceived as state-of-the-art ship designs with many new concepts like exchangeable modules to be installed for different assignments. We did multiple functions more or less with the ship we had. We had one ongoing system malfunction that I knew of, the pitch system that varied the angle of the propeller blades to control the speed and power of thrust. These were never right, and time was spent mid-Pacific, at Guam, to correct this, which was never entirely accomplished. Fair winds and following seas to my successors aboard these current ships.

Non sibi sed patriae.

 

[Zack Miller]

The Navy wants to cut four Littoral Combat Ships from the fleet as part of a cost-saving measure that will net the service $186 million, according to the service’s latest budget request.
The request to cull the ships from the battle force inventory comes despite criticism from Congress over last year’s proposal to retire the first four Littoral Combat Ships early.
Budget documents call for cutting the second Independence-class aluminum trimaran USS Coronado (LCS-4) and three Freedom-class variants – USS Fort Worth (LCS-3), USS Detroit(LCS-7) and USS Little Rock (LCS-9) – that have struggled with problems with their propulsion systems.
The Navy commissioned Forth Worth in 2012 and Coronado in 2014. Detroit commissioned in 2016 and Little Rock in 2017.
The Pentagon and the Navy gave two separate rationales for cutting the ships.

Cutting the pair, “avoids the cost to upgrade these ships to the common configuration and capability with the rest of the fleet and allows for investments in higher priority capability and capacity,” according to a Navy document outlining the service’s FY 2022 request. “Also, LCSs 3 and 4 do not have mission packages (MP) assigned and the current MP procurement does not account for MP procurement for these two ships. Continued fleet operations would require purchasing an MP for each ship. The replacement capability is the FFG 62 Constellation class of ships.”
The first Constellation-class frigate is not expected to enter the fleet until the late 2020s.
The Pentagon said a Freedom-class wide issue with the combining gear that marries the ship’s gas turbines to the diesel engines on Detroit and Little Rock weren’t worth the effort to repair.


Link to Full article below

Navy Tries to Cut Four Littoral Combat Ships to Save $186M in FY 22 Budget - USNI News

This story has been updated to include comments from the Navy’s budget briefing. The Navy wants to cut four Littoral Combat Ships from the fleet as part of a cost-saving measure that will net the service $186 million, according to the service’s latest budget request. The request to cull the...

news.usni.org

When we lived in Maine, wifey worked at BIW where they build the Arleigh Burke class destroyers. These ships have about as much in common with WWII and Vietnam era destroyers as a Porsche has to a Volkswagen Beetle.

During a transit cruise they even let her steer the ship.
On another occasion she was up in the chopper helping take videos of the Winston S. Churchill as it went down the Kennebec. Her job was certainly more interesting and fun than mine.

 

[puff_not_snuff]

Did you ever dock at the Navy Yard in Brooklyn?

 

[Grangerous]

MSO489
My Dad was a flight deck corpsman aboard the Carriers Saratoga and Essex from 61thru 69. My grandfather aboard the Tin Can Destroyer USS Niblack in both theaters WW2, my other grandfather a Marine on Iwo. Thanks for your service. I come from a Naval family. I’m the rebel that broke the chain -Army.

 

[anantaandroscoggin]

One of my visits to GTMO, they had us do a Boarding exercise aboard a wooden minesweeper that was riding at anchor. The only image that I can recall at the time, was thinking how cramped bunks stacked 3-high looked.

 

[mso489]

My Pappy was the 26-year-old skipper of the old YMS class minesweepers in the Philippines during WWII, smoking Granger in his pipe all the way. So I was a lowly enlisted radioman on the USS Gallant in the so-called demilitarized zone (not so much), also called the combat zone. I told him we were a minesweeper dynasty. I tried for OCS, but everyone was applying; you needed an engineering degree or something akin to be selected. Despite my recommendation from a reservist Admiral. As for the cramped quarters on those MSO (minesweeper oceangoing) berthing spaces, cramped is an understatement. Also, they had the wildest ride in the fleet, with those round bottom hulls. You had roll and pitch, but also yaw, diagonal movement. You'd think you were at the end of the swing and the deck would go a little further over in some direction. When we'd be in radio contact with the oiler (a great big steel hulled ship) we'd be making typos all over the place in our copy, sitting in front of the keyboard with the chair roped in place. And they'd come back with tidy copy, and guys would be watching form the oiler like they were watching people on a rollercoaster. Luckily, I had some ancient lineage of sailors and didn't get seasick. A lot of guys spent their first week aboard wrapped around the commode. I got the dry heaves once, for skipping breakfast, after we were back in homeport in Long Beach making a run up the coast to SFran. What a life.

 

[mso489]

Zack, thank you for the additional information on the Littoral Combat Ships and their history. Your wife has had an interesting career in naval ship building. I'm reading a history on the Royal Navy, and it is a centuries old story of continually upgrading the design of ships from many generations of square riggers to steam to oil propulsion. The sea battles were won in the shipyards, to a considerable extent, and also in the hearts of tens of thousands of sailors willing to "dance" with untimely death.

 

[johnnyreb]

During the Civil War one of my great great grandfathers served for the Union aboard one of the 13 Ironclad gun ships, the USS Benton. Because the ironclads had been retrofitted, the 13 were all different.

The USS Benton carried a crew of 200 men. They patrolled the Yazoo River, the lower Mississippi River, & were involved in the Battle of Vicksburg.

 

[mso489]

According to this naval history I'm reading, the armored gun boats were the first step toward battleships. They were not seaworthy, as you might suspect, but their ability to take fire was notable. Those are great photos. In Kinston, N.C., there are the remains of a Confederate gunboat taken out of the Neuse River in fairly shallow water well into the Twentieth Century.

 

[johnnyreb]

According to this naval history I'm reading, the armored gun boats were the first step toward battleships. They were not seaworthy, as you might suspect, but their ability to take fire was notable. Those are great photos. In Kinston, N.C., there are the remains of a Confederate gunboat taken out of the Neuse River in fairly shallow water well into the Twentieth Century.

The gunnel was always right at the water line leaving no hull above water. The steel plates above the gunnel where at such an angle & thickness that Cannon balls would just strike the plate & roll down into the river.

One of the Union Ironclads is on outdoor display in Vicksburg. It was found on the river bottom in the early part of the 20th century but wasn't brought up until yrs later. Some of the wooden substructure had to be rebuilt. And even though it's under roof today the humidity & damp air of Vicksburg is taking a tole.

 

[LOREN]

The gunnel was always right at the water line leaving no hull above water. The steel plates above the gunnel where at such an angle & thickness that Cannon balls would just strike the plate & roll down into the river.

One of the Union Ironclads is on outdoor display in Vicksburg. It was found on the river bottom in the early part of the 20th century but wasn't brought up until yrs later. Some of the wooden substructure had to be rebuilt. And even though it's under roof today the humidity & damp air of Vicksburg is taking a tole.

It looks like they could be swamped easily, did that ever happen?

 

[anotherbob]

anything that has more functions and features has more chance of having issues. And has more chance of each part some how interfering with another. A lot of times personally if I need to buy something I avoid the one that can do so many things. Multiple that by Warship and this story makes so much more sense.

 

[LOREN]

Also, I thought the Union's ironclads were the ones with the cylindrical cannon turret on deck.

 

[johnnyreb]

It looks like they could be swamped easily, did that ever happen?

The steel plates were sealed & kept water out reasonably well. As MSO said, they weren't ocean going vessels.