The Tobaccapolypse Approaches, or Does It?
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Not to be even more incendiary, but….
Someone said earlier in this discussion that this issue isn't about public health, it's about control. Well, that's only half-right. It IS about public health, only the idea is that the government should use its coercive powers to make people behave in ways that are "healthy." It is the exact same rationale that has allowed the government to imprison tens of millions of Americans under the guise of the "Drug War." It allowed the insanity that was alcohol prohibition. It is used to justify gun control laws. If you support laws banning pot (or other recreational drugs), alcohol, guns, etc., then I fail to see how you could on principle oppose tobacco legislation. It's the exact same thing -- an ideology that says "If people are doing things that might be self-destructive then the government has the right to destroy them." We've turned into a country that wants to pass a law whenever we don't like something, without noticing (or caring) that these laws target PEOPLE, not activities. Gun control laws target gun owners, not guns. Drug laws target drug users, not drugs. And tobacco laws target tobacco users -- us. And it's not just the politicians who have created this mess. We the PEOPLE have often demanded these laws, usually in the grip of one of the moral panics that sweep our nation every few years. It's no coincidence that the legal penalties for smoking grow more restrictive as the number of smokers declines. Some people call this a "nanny state" or -- given the number of laws that now effectively criminalize news gathering, political participation outside of the two main parties, etc. -- a "police state." But call it what you will, the bottom line is that we the people demanded this state of affairs. Hopefully, we'll demand something better someday.
Someone said earlier in this discussion that this issue isn't about public health, it's about control. Well, that's only half-right. It IS about public health, only the idea is that the government should use its coercive powers to make people behave in ways that are "healthy." It is the exact same rationale that has allowed the government to imprison tens of millions of Americans under the guise of the "Drug War." It allowed the insanity that was alcohol prohibition. It is used to justify gun control laws. If you support laws banning pot (or other recreational drugs), alcohol, guns, etc., then I fail to see how you could on principle oppose tobacco legislation. It's the exact same thing -- an ideology that says "If people are doing things that might be self-destructive then the government has the right to destroy them." We've turned into a country that wants to pass a law whenever we don't like something, without noticing (or caring) that these laws target PEOPLE, not activities. Gun control laws target gun owners, not guns. Drug laws target drug users, not drugs. And tobacco laws target tobacco users -- us. And it's not just the politicians who have created this mess. We the PEOPLE have often demanded these laws, usually in the grip of one of the moral panics that sweep our nation every few years. It's no coincidence that the legal penalties for smoking grow more restrictive as the number of smokers declines. Some people call this a "nanny state" or -- given the number of laws that now effectively criminalize news gathering, political participation outside of the two main parties, etc. -- a "police state." But call it what you will, the bottom line is that we the people demanded this state of affairs. Hopefully, we'll demand something better someday.
Oh -- and of course this isn't necessarily a Republican vs. Democrat thing. But some of us have noticed that many of our conservative brethren seem to blame the anti-tobacco policies on the Democrats, which is a profoundly ill-informed position. Both parties are equally at fault. I live in Tennessee, which is possibly the reddest state in the country. Seriously -- I don't think we have a single Democratic rep in Congress, our governor is Republican, and both state houses have something like 70 percent Republicans. But we have very strict anti-tobacco measures, and they were passed by the GOP. I can't smoke in a restaurant or hotel without breaking the law, if I get caught smoking less than 50 feet from the front door of a business I can be charged criminally, etc. The Republicans did this. And it was a GOP senator who, in Washington a few years ago, tried to pass a law that would have made smoking a cigarette or pipe a FELONY punishable by prison time.
I'm not blaming the Republicans or Democrats to the exclusion of the other. Both are hell-bent on destroying our rights, it seems.
I'm not blaming the Republicans or Democrats to the exclusion of the other. Both are hell-bent on destroying our rights, it seems.
Smokers are always an easy target to get money from and give or waste somewhere else. Probably the next funding source for the obama care web site.
Before this thread get's locked for discussing politics, any update on whether or not the bill(s) passed?
Let's see...
S.194: GovTrack, congress.gov
S.826: GovTrack, congress.gov
Looks like both were referred to committee -- which can mean anything for next year, but is often where bills go to die.
S.194: GovTrack, congress.gov
S.826: GovTrack, congress.gov
Looks like both were referred to committee -- which can mean anything for next year, but is often where bills go to die.
This thread convinced me to actually calculate my meager cellar. I only have a rough estimate. Based on 2 bowls/week (at 2g tobacco/bowl) my current cellar should last me close to 51yrs. If I bump that up to 3 bowls/week, my cellar will last 34yrs. For those curious, that means I have approx 23lbs. Not too shabby for someone who only got into it 3 years ago.
Looks like I'll have a bit more to do, because when I retire, I'll hopefully be smoking more often.
Thanks, planetary, for the insight. hopefully this tobacapolypse will be avoided for a little while longer so we all can finish our cellars
Looks like I'll have a bit more to do, because when I retire, I'll hopefully be smoking more often.
Thanks, planetary, for the insight. hopefully this tobacapolypse will be avoided for a little while longer so we all can finish our cellars
I spent a day with Frank Lautenberg, back in the early 90's.
It was election season, and I was working on a profile of him for the major east coast newspaper that employed me as a photographer at the time. We spent the day in the area of his old home town, Paterson, NJ. By then, Mr. Lautenberg was showing signs of a loss of mental acuity. He was living in the past. As we rode around the decrepit, crime-ridden city in his chauffeured Lincoln, Mr. Lautenberg pointed out the sights to me: where he grew up, where his first job was, where this factory and that factory used to be, how Paterson was once a great city. "You represent this city in the US Senate" I said, "What happened?" He obfuscated, blamed big corporations for moving work down south and overseas, and proceeded on to more nostalgia.
I was still a liberal Democrat back then, but that day was pivotal to my ensuing political sea change. It was also around the time that I started smoking cigars. Soon thereafter, I bought my first firearm.
It was election season, and I was working on a profile of him for the major east coast newspaper that employed me as a photographer at the time. We spent the day in the area of his old home town, Paterson, NJ. By then, Mr. Lautenberg was showing signs of a loss of mental acuity. He was living in the past. As we rode around the decrepit, crime-ridden city in his chauffeured Lincoln, Mr. Lautenberg pointed out the sights to me: where he grew up, where his first job was, where this factory and that factory used to be, how Paterson was once a great city. "You represent this city in the US Senate" I said, "What happened?" He obfuscated, blamed big corporations for moving work down south and overseas, and proceeded on to more nostalgia.
I was still a liberal Democrat back then, but that day was pivotal to my ensuing political sea change. It was also around the time that I started smoking cigars. Soon thereafter, I bought my first firearm.
Not meager in my book murf. Sounds like you're doing great. I wish mine was half that!
Still, my one worry with spending too much on a cellar is that tobacco could be illegal and drug testing for nicotine a regular occurrence to gain employment. It's already going that way in several western countries and it seems to be going that way for the U.S. too.
One maxim that I've always believed in is "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" - and I fear that may hold true for us and tobacco, just hope I am wrong.
Doctorthoss I mostly agree with your position. I was raised under "conservative Democrat" parents and later in life became very conservative myself. Republican reps have abandoned the conservative cause and are right in there with the rest of our representation that wishes to erode our rights as Americans. They are all paid off. PERIOD.
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