The Quality of the Briar

[lasttango]

After reading Fred Hanna's excellent essay reposted here the other day ( http://www.greatnorthernpipeclub.org/Myth.htm), it seemed clear to me that above brand name, it is the quality of the briar used that would have the most profound impact on flavor and on how well a pipe smokes.
(Quality of briar along with engineering and design... and skill of the smoker/break in)
So as I am looking at the "next" pipe I wish to buy, I can't help but think about the "quality" of the briar in that prospective pipe.
Do I take reputation in account?
Like Julius Vesz has a secret stash of 100 year old dead root briar that he's accumulated since the 1960's?

or...

Everyone says that Paul Perri pipes are the most smokable pipes because he uses the best briar etc?

or...

This Italian Pipe maker gets first choice of the briar...
Do I assume that an unsmoked estate 1960's Charatan Select with beautiful, tight straight grain might be a great smoker?
When you are looking at a pipe... whether it's a $78 Rossi or a $4000 Bang, what gives you confidence that it will probably be a great smoker?

 

[jefff]

Nothing except hope. Either the Rossi or the Bang can be great or not. I feel the odds are better with the Bang. I have had bad luck with the 2 Rossi's I once owned, but it comes down to luck.

 

[pitchfork]

I can sometimes notice differences in the taste of the briar (with new pipes), but unless the briar is really badly cured (a rarity with most pipes these days) I don't think it makes any one pipe better or worse. The airway (engineering), the shape of the bowl and the comfort of the stem matter much more in my experience.
The briar that Andrew Marks uses, for example, always tastes particularly sweet and buttery to me, at least for the first few smokes, but Dunhills, old BBBs, Ryan Aldens, Upshalls, Stanwells, etc. all taste more or less the same to me, especially after a few smokes. Recent Stanwells, maybe because of the bowl coating, taste somewhat sharp at first, but that's just a minor difference in flavor, and it doesn't seem to last.

 

[cortezattic]

With respect to the wood, the presence of grain, (meaning I avoid "bald wood"), and light weight, are my two main criteria.

Whether that grain is straight, cross, flame, birdseye, or swirl, is, to me, only an esthetic consideration.

Chamber diameter and depth are what I consider next, followed by how well the draft meets the bottom of the bowl.

To these things I place a high priority on an open draft, of somewhere around 4mm.
I have owned a Julius Vesz dead root briar, and I must admit that it imparts a wonderful flavor to the smoke. For me, that sensation lasts for only a few smokes -- and then I have had to take the carbon cake back down to nearly bare wood. Alas, the whole exercise is hardly worth the effort. Besides, it's the sort of flavor to which one becomes inured pretty quickly.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Reputation counts! But is no guarantee. If I am looking for a bowl that'll deliver a great smoke, I'll tend to look for a quality estate pipe. One's that been "dried" an additional 50 years or so. So a range of perhaps $50-300.
BTW, the Hanna Book is available in digital form.

 

[lasttango]

My best smoking pipe is this Hilson Vintage Special Grain pipe I got from P+C during a big sale. It was $49.99 - I see the same pipes for sale on ebay for $119.00
It's a compact Danish Skater. For over a year. every bowl I smoke out of it is delightful.
I can load up the same tobacco in a similar pipe and it's not as good to me.
I can load the tobacco in a pipe that cost me $300+ and again, it does not have that same magic.

 

[clickklick]

You have to consider the era in which the pipe is/was produced.
Any new wood from reliable sources is boiled and cured much better than what old factories used to get. So this whole hoopla of the briar must be X # of years air cured or be treated special is as much voodoo science and magic as it is fact in regards to the current production.
Mimmo, Makis, and Manno (the big three) get briar supplied from many forests from different regions, the key is that they have their own developed methods for treating the wood after they receive it. So the best possible chance you have of getting a great smoker is to buy a handmade from a pipemaker with good engineering. You will get consistent smokes, normally great. However, since the wood block is organic, each piece ultimately determines how it smokes in the end.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I can sometimes notice differences in the taste of the briar (with new pipes), but unless the briar is really badly cured (a rarity with most pipes these days) I don't think it makes any one pipe better or worse.

Poorly or under cured briar is hardly a rarity! The quality of the briar and how it's cured plays an important role in how a pipe smokes (let's leave the break-in period out for now)
In other words, I adhere to Fred Hanna's monograph on the subject, (at least as I understand it!)

 

[mso489]

Carvers and restorers learn briars over time. The rest of us often have to guess. I differentiate between briar that is good and that which is good and beautiful. Some good briar has fills, or can turn up on mid-quality factory pipes or inexpensive pipes, but happens to be from good stock and a good harvest. Iwan Ries used to sell Benton house pipes with (I think it was) Algerian briar; these were house pipes and some had fills, but the briar is good and they are good smokers and durable pipes. Morgen Johansen who makes Johs pipes has a line on good briar. Some years ago, I bought several of his pipes, over a few years, from the same retailer, that had notably light weight briar, probably high quality and well-aged. Johs makes pipes at a furious pace and keeps the prices down, but the briar seemed similar to that on much more expensive pipes. You have to go partly by brand. I'd say buy pipes one at a time from whoever, and if you find a good quality briar, buy another.

 

[fitzy]

With respect to the wood, the presence of grain, (meaning I avoid "bald wood"), and light weight, are my two main criteria.

Whether that grain is straight, cross, flame, birdseye, or swirl, is, to me, only an esthetic consideration.

Chamber diameter and depth are what I consider next, followed by how well the draft meets the bottom of the bowl.

To these things I place a high priority on an open draft, of somewhere around 4mm.

Cortez I'm surprised you find the presence of grain more important than the engineering. I'm very curious. Do you care to elaborate?
Personally what I think is most important (Considering the wood is quality to begin with) is engineering(include open draw in engineering) followed by chamber depth/diameter followed by weight followed by the esthetic appeal.

 

[lasttango]

Joh's... I need to have Joh's pipe at some point. I have been to Frederickshaven where Morgen Johansen carves.
There is no way to really differentiate the "quality" of his pipes except by what the retailer is saying.
The Danish Pipe shop has some more expensive Joh's and they say that perhaps they get the "better ones."
A seller on eBay has new Joh's pipes for $40-$60. Smoking pipes has the around $100.
The thing is, they all appear to be the same to me.
When I see prices all over the place, I get skeptical.
Maybe I'll try contacting Morgen Johansen directly.

 

[pitchfork]

Poorly or under cured briar is hardly a rarity!

Gauntlet picked up... So which brands use poorly processed briar?

The quality of the briar and how it's cured plays an important role in how a pipe smokes (let's leave the break-in period out for now)

Well, yes. But where is there a noticeable difference in the quality of briar in terms of curing? I haven't smoked all brands, but I've never noticed bad quality briar in any of the brands I've smoked. That is, as far as I can tell (I'm arguing from experience), all of the major brands and artisan makers use well cured briar. Curious why you say otherwise.

 

[Chasing Embers]

what gives you confidence that it will probably be a great smoker?

Nothing. If I like the look and feel of a pipe, I buy it hoping for the best. No guarantees if any pipe will be a good smoker. After paying $800 for a straight Dunhill billiard that would not pass a pipe cleaner, quality is only found after having the pipe. No names or claims can put confidence in me until I have the pipe.

 

[saintpeter]

Gauntlet picked up... So which brands use poorly processed briar?

That's too easy. Say you have two pipes for sale. Different makers, same shape. Same price.

The one I decide to buy will most likely be the bad. Regardless of name.

 

[pitchfork]

That's too easy. Say you have two pipes for sale. Different makers, same shape. Same price.

The one I decide to buy will most likely be the bad. Regardless of name.

Ha ha! Well played. I'm just waiting for someone to say "Peterson!"

 

[jpmcwjr]

Well, without using the "p word" I will say I've had a few pipes from a major Irish manufacturer where it seemed the briar was under cured. How can I say that? Just a supposition, but as those two pipes have turned out to be fine smokers, though they weren't at first. Some 40-50 bowls of smoking dry, and to the bottom had the effect of further curing with heat and a bit of time. I suspect the pipe is lighter, too, but not by more than a gram. Wish I had weighed when I got, though my scale doesn't go to fractions of a gram.

 

[pitchfork]

Well, without using the "p word" I will say I've had a few pipes from a major Irish manufacturer where it seemed the briar was under cured. How can I say that? Just a supposition, but as those two pipes have turned out to be fine smokers, though they weren't at first.

Interesting. I've only had a couple of new Petersons, but I gladly take your word for it. Will be interesting to hear what others have to say - and I wonder if the discussion won't focus on that particular manufacturer!

 

[jpmcwjr]

Well, some love to bash them, but I not among them. I have half a dozen Petes and cherish each one, though two Aran bents are my car pipes, and seldom are seen in public!
I am not able to make macro statements about curing in the last decade vs many decades ago, and shouldn't have indicated so. But there's such a variety of methods, time and stock that go into how the briar itself turns out as a smoking vessel, before the engineering and workmanship.

 

[sablebrush52]

So there you have it. Everyone so far has been in complete agreement from the very first. No one has dissented, nor offered any anecdotal information whatsoever. Oh...time for my meds.
!. You smoke briar, you don't smoke brands.
2. You look at brands with the hope that reputation leads to better materials and process, including briar. Sometimes that works out, other times, not so much.
3. Any well drilled and finished piece of cured briar is going to work.
4. 75% of a good smoke is knowing how to smoke the blends that you like - technique.
5. 25% of that smoking experience is the equipment.
6. Claims about the innate superiority of a particular maker are bullshit. Everyone has hits and misses.
7. Briar is an organic natural substance and it is full of surprises, even for experienced carvers.
8. Claims about the innate superiority of old vs new briar, or new vs old, are bullshit. No one, no one, no one, has stepped forth with an objective and unambiguously quantifiable method for proving any such assertions.
9. The innate superiority of 100 year old briar is a marketing ploy. BTW, Barling stated back in the 1920's that they looked for briar aged at about 60 years or younger. People like to make claims that Barling used 200 year old wood. Bullshit.
10. People continually underestimate the importance of the bit to the smoking experience. Dunhill understood its importance, which is why they made superb bits for their generally medium grade briar. I'm being kind here. The three top tier Dunhill dealers/distributors with whom I had correspondence over a number of years all used the word "mediocre" when referring to the briar. Interestingly, they all collected Barlings...hmmmmmmm...
11. Few of us would know a good piece of briar on sight. Then again, given that a lot of surprises lurk beneath the surface, nobody really knows a good piece of briar on sight
12. People underestimate how important the cutter's role is in all of this.
13. Price and performance are not equatable. A $4000 pipe isn't going to smoke 100 times better than a $40 pipe. See #4.
14. The pipe smoking community loves myths, anecdotal information with no basis in fact, and just plain bullshit. We call it lore. If we didn't, there wouldn't be a market for forums.
15. Nothing about pipe smoking is objective.
16. The above is going to piss off someone. I don't care. This was fun.

 

[georged]

I know a pipe maker who, as an experiment, boiled near-finished stummels in alcohol---in a pressure cooker---for an hour to drive out every speck of yuk in the wood it was humanly possible to remove.
The result was lovely to look at. Enhanced grain, a lovely cream color, and vastly lighter than before. A full 1/3rd lighter (30 gram bowl before boiling weighed 20 grams after).
How did they smoke? Fantastically well. The balsa-light wood ignited almost as easily as the tobacco, and the room filled with briar smoke in seconds.
I'm pretty sure there's a lesson in there, somewhere.
On the other hand, a pipe made from an under-cured block will literally ooze pin pricks of jet black tar-like crap from the sides of the bowl when it heats up from smoking. I've seen it with my own astonished eyes. (I was smoking the pipe)
There's a lesson in there, too.
Probably the best-smoking pipe I own is a mid-grade Willmer I bought new in 1978 for $55. An oddly shaped, semi-clunky billiard with a canted bowl. Not a damn thing about it was special then or now, other than how it smokes. (I do remember the chamber was stained a deep blue-black, though, like it had been painted with India ink.)
I also once spent a personal record amount for two pipes made by a high-level-super-famous-Scandinavian-carver-who-shall-remain-nameless. Neither smoked worth a damn.
So, after noting these things and discussing them with other long time collector-smoker friends, and them sharing their stories with me, we came to a collectively-arrived-at conclusion:
Good SMOKING pipes are where you find them. The end.