The Paranormal?

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telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
It's funny to listen to people say, "Follow the science."

What the hell does that mean?

Science is at best, an incomplete attempt at any time to understand a universe that is beyond the ability of our brains to comprehend.

The best we can do is create some mathematical expressions that appear to work and can be used to predict certain events or occurrences.

However, and this is the big one, our very best science is limited to our ability to make authentic observations - observations based upon the limits of our senses.
 

autumnfog

Lifer
Jul 22, 2018
1,227
2,676
Sweden
No.

Noticed that many ghost stories people tell are regular plain sleep paralysis phenomena.
I've had a few of those, and how spooky they might feel at the moment it's just about gaps
between wake and sleep where hallucinations may occur.
 
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telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
No.

Noticed that many ghost stories people tell are regular plain sleep paralysis phenomena.
I've had a few of those, and how spooky they might feel at the moment it's just about gaps
between wake and sleep where hallucinations may occur.
Except when the person you are with sees the EXACT same thing. It's a little difficult for that to happen. And it did.
 

Zero

Lifer
Apr 9, 2021
1,746
13,257
From what I have read of the subject, the very act of observing changes the outcome of the experiment or what's being observed. Particles behave differently when being observed. So, what do we really know? And some studies are saying that particles have been shown to have a form of consciousness and are self aware. Which kinda goes back to what you were saying, Brian, maybe consciousness did gave way to matter. I'm too buzzed to go on. It's a deep rabbit hole, and I have to do some astral projection to take a quick vacation in Hawaii before I have to get up for work tomorrow. Om....
 

autumnfog

Lifer
Jul 22, 2018
1,227
2,676
Sweden
Except when the person you are with sees the EXACT same thing. It's a little difficult for that to happen. And it did.
Depends.
Sleep paralysis phenomena are quite easily recognized by the way they are told,
especially if the mutual hallucination in spe occur in time of awakening/going to sleep.

Another aspect is that humans often fall under the power of suggestion,
if someone is scared, perplexed etc it tend to affect others around them.

Of course science don't know everything yet but I like to eliminate
possible explanations before I start believing.
 
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irishearl

Lifer
Aug 2, 2016
2,278
4,101
Kansas
I tend to believe one of the reasons most paranormal phenomena aren't amenable to research is that the human experience of it is unpredictably fleeting for most phenomena and probably dependent on corresponding fleeting changes in consciousness in order to perceive it.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Depends.
Sleep paralysis phenomena are quite easily recognized by the way they are told,
especially if the mutual hallucination in spe occur in time of awakening/going to sleep.

Another aspect is that humans often fall under the power of suggestion,
if someone is scared, perplexed etc it tend to affect others around them.

Of course science don't know everything yet but I like to eliminate
possible explanations before I start believing.
Let me be clear. Both people saw the exact same thing at the exact same time in the exact same place.
 
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autumnfog

Lifer
Jul 22, 2018
1,227
2,676
Sweden
telescopes,

What was seen and at what time, If I may ask?
I find the supernatural interesting to read about
even though I'm a skeptic.
 
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PoplarWight

Might Stick Around
Feb 13, 2022
88
604
I've had a few, none pleasant, and several other witnesses around to corroborate. Rarely drink, never done drugs outside of alcohol or tobacco. Wouldn't recommend messing around trying to find it.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
telescopes,

What was seen and at what time, If I may ask?
I find the supernatural interesting to read about
even though I'm a skeptic.
We are only skeptics until it happens to us.

my wife and I were at a hotel in the ozarks. We were both sleeping when we were awaken at the same time by the sense that someone was in our room. We both saw a man clearly standing at the edge of our bed. I think I screamed and quickly turned on the light. No one was there and there was nothing in the room that would remotely look like a person. But we both saw him and stared at him independently of each other the door was locked from the inside. Of course, it could be argued a lot of ways, but we both know what we saw and their was enough light to make it clear what we were looking at. We have a sixth sense that warns us when there is trouble or something is not right. There was no sleep paralysis- I know that feeling.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
I tend to believe one of the reasons most paranormal phenomena aren't amenable to research is that the human experience of it is unpredictably fleeting for most phenomena and probably dependent on corresponding fleeting changes in consciousness in order to perceive it.
DMT research clearly shows their is something else out there.
 

autumnfog

Lifer
Jul 22, 2018
1,227
2,676
Sweden
telescopes,

Interesting story, appreciate the sharing.
Ghost or paralysis or something else, I am not the judge of that.
Spooky enough, that's for sure.

I can say that although a skeptical some environments can have a
mood or atmosphere about them that creeps me out.
 
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TheWhale13

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 12, 2021
803
3,427
Sweden
It's funny to listen to people say, "Follow the science."

What the hell does that mean?

Science is at best, an incomplete attempt at any time to understand a universe that is beyond the ability of our brains to comprehend.

The best we can do is create some mathematical expressions that appear to work and can be used to predict certain events or occurrences.

However, and this is the big one, our very best science is limited to our ability to make authentic observations - observations based upon the limits of our senses.
Can't agree more.

One thing that bothers me is that some people are very certain that we live in a simulation or such. But I really think that is just a way for some people to try to understand the universe with the technology we have now. There really is no difference between thinking that we live in a simulation vs that a man lives in the clouds. Some people have told me that "the calculations point to us living in a simulation" but, I still feel like it's just an attempt to rationalize our presence here. The universe probably is a lot simpler than we think, and a lot more complex at the same time. But what do I know?
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Can't agree more.

One thing that bothers me is that some people are very certain that we live in a simulation or such. But I really think that is just a way for some people to try to understand the universe with the technology we have now. There really is no difference between thinking that we live in a simulation vs that a man lives in the clouds. Some people have told me that "the calculations point to us living in a simulation" but, I still feel like it's just an attempt to rationalize our presence here. The universe probably is a lot simpler than we think, and a lot more complex at the same time. But what do I know?
Think about this. People will claim to be athiests, stating their is no proof of God. No evidence. Yet, they are willing to embrace an idea that the Big Bang is correct and that all the universe came from a singularity because physics points to this and scientists agree. Well excuse me, but both religion and science seem to look into the unknown - an unknown that continues to become more vast the deeper science looks. Quantum physics leads to quantum realities which lead to questions that question the very nature of existence- taking us back to where we started. At some point, it demands a great deal of faith to “follow the science”. to be clear, I embrace science and am an amature astronomer who is strongly interested in physics.

Science can help me build my house. Turning it into a home takes something else.