The Miracle of Briar

[Suilven]

Hello Gentlemen. As a fairly new pipe smoker, I have much to learn, and it's all enjoyable. Today I'm sitting in the sun smoking Amphora Virginia in my Savinelli 316 and marvelling at the wonder of the pipe. Essentially I'm smoking a plant (tobacco) in an instrument which is also a plant (the pipe). Obviously this requires that the combustion temperature of tobacco must be substantially lower than the combustion temperature of briar, or else once the tobacco is gone, my pipe itself will burn until nothing will be left but the stem hanging out of my mouth. This will never do.

So, I did a 5-minute internet search on the combustion points of both substances. Now, I realize many of you already know this, but I want to share what I learned for the newer pipe-lovers. According to what I read, tobacco burns at approximately 500 degrees C. (932 degrees F.), whereas briar will burn at approximately 700 degrees C. (1292 degrees F.) This means briar can handle an additional 200 degrees C. or nearly 400 degrees F. before it begins to burn.

It strikes me this gives us plenty of "headroom" and means we needn't worry about our pipes burning up on us. Of course, there are variables which can change this situation such as poor quality briar, serious flaws in the briar, etc., and obviously with a multitude of bowls smoked the briar can begin to degrade, but it seems to me that overall briar is a magical substance.

This understanding makes me even more grateful for those men over the past couple hundred years who sorted all this out and developed for us this most remarkable smoking device. Cheers to you all as you enjoy a bowl today!

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Don't forget clay and corn cobs....LOL!!

 

[Mr_houston]

Interesting write-up. I did not know that.

 

[jrharrigan]

Interesting write-up. I did not know that.

Neither did I...but it's missing some info between when tobacco burns and when briar burns.

What about the temperature at which my skin burns?

 

[anotherbob]

Neither did I...but it's missing some info between when tobacco burns and when briar burns.

What about the temperature at which my skin burns?

yours probably 75 degress F either that or the color is a little off on that profile pic, (your head looks satanically red on the computer I am using at the moment, might be the settings).
To the original point I have heard that the people who sell briar to pipe makers know much more about briar then they did even about ten years ago, or more accurately how to tell if it's quality. I have to wonder if that is part of the reason that burn outs don't seem nearly as common. I certainly can believe that as I've only had one pipe get burned and it took and burnt easily and quickly (taste horrid by the way) and that was a cheap cheap pipe. about 30 bucks. If I am right about that it might explain why cake isn't as much of a must have thing in your pipe.

 

[mikethompson]

Interesting about the burning points of both substances. I would guess most burnouts are caused by really cheap and thin briar or by excessive heat.

 

[mithridate]

Very interesting! To me this also brings a question of combustion temperature of a corn cob. I tried to Google the thing, immediately, but... failed. I just found information written by some lunatics, who use cobs to keep their houses - or something else - warm by burning cobs, instead of upgrading their life quality by burning tobacco in them.

 

[mparker762]

So, I did a 5-minute internet search on the combustion points of both substances. Now, I realize many of you already know this, but I want to share what I learned for the newer pipe-lovers. According to what I read, tobacco burns at approximately 500 degrees C. (932 degrees F.), whereas briar will burn at approximately 700 degrees C. (1292 degrees F.) This means briar can handle an additional 200 degrees C. or nearly 400 degrees F. before it begins to burn.

Do you have a link to your sources? I'm pretty sure there's an error in them, or an error in intepretation, because going by those numbers burnout should simply not be possible no matter how hard you puff or how bad the briar is. The numbers you want to compare are the temperature tobacco produces when it burns, and the temperature that will cause briar to start burning - not the temperature briar produces as it burns. These two numbers - ignition temperature and burn temperature - are frequently very different.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

451F is the temperature in which paper burns. I remember that one because of the book.

The temperature of tobacco incinerates at 500F, and a butane lighter burns at 1970F at the edge of the flame. Inside the flame is the coolest part at close to room temperatures. So, aiming a lighter down into the briar is stupid.
First, if you push the edge of the flame down into the pipe, you are most likely cooling the center of the area you are wanting to burn, making it even harder to do what you are wanting to do.

Second, you are more efficiently using the heat if you let the flame hover sideways at about an half an inch above the pipe chamber, up to an inch. You draw down the heat only, not to colorful part of the flame, and you get the tobacco up to temperature faster and more efficiently.

Yet, I see people buying lighters made for the mentally challenged that aims the flame down, giving people the false notion that you are supposed to put the flame down into the bowl.

But at the edge you are at almost 2000F, so half and inch to an inch above the tobacco is very hot, beyond what you need to get the tobacco started. But, I think that the lack of a visual on the heat is why most pipe smokers don't click with how this heat works.

But, pushing the flame inside the bowl is not only less efficient at getting the tobacco started, it adds more butane to the flavor of the first few puffs, overheats the tobacco deeper inside the bowl, and risks burning the pipe out on the inside. It just makes for a less tasty smoke, and risks burning those briars that we love so much.

 

[fireground_piper]

I haven't compared much on temps, but I'll say briar chunks burn in my wood stove pretty equally to my other hard woods I use (oak, maple, cherry, hickory). If I had to take a guess, I'd put densities pretty close to each other from that non-technical experience.

 

[hairvise]

451F is the temperature in which paper burns. I remember that one because of the book.

The temperature of tobacco incinerates at 500F, and a butane lighter burns at 1970F at the edge of the flame. Inside the flame is the coolest part at close to room temperatures. So, aiming a lighter down into the briar is stupid.
First, if you push the edge of the flame down into the pipe, you are most likely cooling the center of the area you are wanting to burn, making it even harder to do what you are wanting to do.

Second, you are more efficiently using the heat if you let the flame hover sideways at about an half an inch above the pipe chamber, up to an inch. You draw down the heat only, not to colorful part of the flame, and you get the tobacco up to temperature faster and more efficiently.

Yet, I see people buying lighters made for the mentally challenged that aims the flame down, giving people the false notion that you are supposed to put the flame down into the bowl.

But at the edge you are at almost 2000F, so half and inch to an inch above the tobacco is very hot, beyond what you need to get the tobacco started. But, I think that the lack of a visual on the heat is why most pipe smokers don't click with how this heat works.

But, pushing the flame inside the bowl is not only less efficient at getting the tobacco started, it adds more butane to the flavor of the first few puffs, overheats the tobacco deeper inside the bowl, and risks burning the pipe out on the inside. It just makes for a less tasty smoke, and risks burning those briars that we love so much.

Thanks for this wisdom, @cosmicfolklore ! I’ll give this a try today and see how it goes. I’m always concerned about over heating the tobacco and the impact that it can have on flavor.

 

[mso489]

I'm not sure who first tried briar as a tobacco pipe material. It could have been anywhere it grows naturally. However, I think it is established that the French commercialized briar and made it perhaps the principle tobacco pipe material. Someone noticed that it had a higher burn temperature than most other available wood, while being soft enough to carve and being amenable to an attractive finish. The English picked up briar, and many of the French shapes, and made them their own. Briar is remarkably suitable for this use. Mountain Laurel, as a wood, runs a close second, though it does not show its grain as advantageously.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Someone noticed that it had a higher burn temperature than most other available wood,

Respectfully, briar doesn't have a higher combustion temperature, that I am aware of. I haven't done any tests myself. But, regardless, I think the reason that briar caught on was more for its aromatic qualities. The smell of slightly warmed briar complements the tobacco very well. Whereas oak or cherry would stand out as being so different that it would be distracting. As it is, I don't think many pipesmokers even notice the aromas of the briar as it is talked about so little on here. But, when smoked in meerschaum or a clay, the tobacco just doesn't have the pipe-y smell, as it lacks the essential aromas given off by the briar.

 

[fireground_piper]

Yeah, you can pick out oak, cherry, maple, etc. without even looking at them from their aroma alone.

 

[STP]

Good write-up... and generally true, but not all briar is created equal.

 

[Suilven]

Do you have a link to your sources? I'm pretty sure there's an error in them, or an error in intepretation, because going by those numbers burnout should simply not be possible no matter how hard you puff or how bad the briar is. The numbers you want to compare are the temperature tobacco produces when it burns, and the temperature that will cause briar to start burning - not the temperature briar produces as it burns. These two numbers - ignition temperature and burn temperature - are frequently very different.

mparker762, I didn't look much into it. I simply googled "tobacco burning temperature" and "briar burning temperature" and a few entries came up. I simply wanted a rough estimate. As you suggest, there will be more to it if ignition temperature vs. burn temperature are considered.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

mparker762, I didn't look much into it. I simply googled "tobacco burning temperature" and "briar burning temperature" and a few entries came up. I simply wanted a rough estimate. As you suggest, there will be more to it if ignition temperature vs. burn temperature are considered.

Those temps are the combustion points. That doesn't mean that the burning tobacco will stay at that temperature if you puff harder and harder, because adding oxygen increases the temperature of combustion dramatically. I bet that once the tobacco is going it is much hotter than 500F.

See, this is where those conspiracy morons were wrong on the burning of jet fuel and the World Trade Tower. They Googled the combustion of the fuel and they didn't even understand what that meant. Probably on average, once the tobacco is going with gentle sips, it probably stays at about 600ish.

 

[kcghost]

This is something I never worried about.

 

[mithridate]

I'm not an bio engineer, nor should i be, but from somewhere I've got a deep impression that usefullness of briar has something to do with its ability to endure significant changes of temperature without resizing too much. Resize is not the proper word, I'm afraid, but you know what I mean. Wood lives its own life, I know it all too well, being a piano technician, and getting nasty surprises now and then, since wooden soundboards swell and shrink due to the changes of humidity, and make pianos go honkytonks, accidentally.

But about the fact that briar is miraculous material, I agree.

 

[Suilven]

Those temps are the combustion points. That doesn't mean that the burning tobacco will stay at that temperature if you puff harder and harder, because adding oxygen increases the temperature of combustion dramatically. I bet that once the tobacco is going it is much hotter than 500F.

See, this is where those conspiracy morons were wrong on the burning of jet fuel and the World Trade Tower. They Googled the combustion of the fuel and they didn't even understand what that meant. Probably on average, once the tobacco is going with gentle sips, it probably stays at about 600ish.

If tobacco's combustion point is 500 C. but while burning it remains about 600ish as you mention, and if briar's combustion point is 700 C. but its burn temperature is, say, 800ish, then the points I was trying to make remain true.

1. There's a lot of "headroom" for us as we smoke and we needn't worry about quality briar burning out on us as long as we aren't puffing like locomotives as we smoke.

2. Briar is a magical substance, a plant within which we can smoke another plant.

I wasn't intending to do an engineering study here, but simply to draw attention to the wonders of a briar pipe. Cheers everyone!