Yep that is about the size of it tuold and I am off to smoke a bowl full as this thread is getting a little too interesting!
The infamous Kyle Black.......is back?, from Marty Pulvers "The Mill"
- Thread starter rx2man
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In a civil court, all that has to happen is for his lawyer to convince a jury. Worse than that, the defendant would have to appear in court, with an attorney. Can anyone here easily afford that?
It seems that there are still people who do not realize that what you post online is forever. That's a long time for someone to decide that your comments are actionable.
It seems that there are still people who do not realize that what you post online is forever. That's a long time for someone to decide that your comments are actionable.
@ssjones there is a seller on eBay with the user name kaerbybro selling a lot of dunhills with 100% positive feedback that is from Texas. Problem is if they cancel the auction it removes your ability to leave feedback so it may or may not be the Mr. Black in question as you had stated.
And that is exactly why I deleted my post.
That seller does have 355 positive feedback auctions in this past year. While some of those certainly could have been cancelled, it's likely the bulk are legitimate. Based on that and my email communications and numerous telephone calls with Kyle, I don't believe they are the same person. To this point, I believe that I'm the only forum member on numerous platforms to have actually spoken to Kyle on numerous calls.
I've been bidding in auctions when a seller suddenly cancels my bid and ends the auction at the last minute. I don't think sellers should be allowed to do that. After all, my bid is considered my promise to pay if I win. I think the seller should have the same commitment in accepting my bid to sell the item if I am the highest bidder. Evidently, that is not the case. The rules say when a seller ends an auction early they must sell to the highest bidder, but that has never happened to me.
Now, refusing to send an item after the auction is over is just plain fraud.
Now, refusing to send an item after the auction is over is just plain fraud.
I bought an Erik Nielsen pipe from this character in question a month or two ago. The transaction went as smoothly as it could possibly go and the pipe was exactly as depicted on ebay. I was actually shocked that this popped up and went back and made sure it was the same ebay seller i bought from.
That said, i do agree with the theory above that they could be legit on the lower end and mid-grade pipes (i'd consider my Nielsen mid-upper mid grade) and possibly wait until a very rare/high end pipe is up for sale for the con.
Either way, i appreciate this thread and the the OP for bringing the seller in question to light. Whether true or not, it is still good to know that VERY respectable and highly regarded sources have put this person into question. This fact definitely carries some weight with me. I don't think i would buy from the seller again, just in case, and for that i thank you for the heads up, rx2man.
That said, i do agree with the theory above that they could be legit on the lower end and mid-grade pipes (i'd consider my Nielsen mid-upper mid grade) and possibly wait until a very rare/high end pipe is up for sale for the con.
Either way, i appreciate this thread and the the OP for bringing the seller in question to light. Whether true or not, it is still good to know that VERY respectable and highly regarded sources have put this person into question. This fact definitely carries some weight with me. I don't think i would buy from the seller again, just in case, and for that i thank you for the heads up, rx2man.
I sell a good bit of stuff on eBay. Mostly my surplus photo gear, but other odds and ends from time to time, too. I have had to end bidding on an auction on several occasions, and I've had to cancel an auction after it has closed. Usually, it's because I discover a problem with the item that I'm selling that the buy wouldn't appreciate (like it has stopped working). I've also had problems with bid retractions. If a bidder has placed a high bid on an item, then retracts the bid, it effects the final sale price. eBay has a stated time limit on bid retractions, but they make exceptions.
I state in my ads that I reserve the right to end an auction early. EBay allows it, and sometimes it is necessary.
I'll also add that based on what "Bob" wrote, I would not want to deal with him. He's threatening. He's trying to extort the seller. I suspect that we are only hearing Bob's side of the story, and based on his rambling missive, he sounds like a dick to me. The seller had every right to cancel the sale and probably did the right thing in doing so.
I've sold several items for .99 cents on eBay when only one person bid! I always send the buyer a not congratulating them on a great buy!
My fur gets rubbed the wrong way, though, when people like Bob threaten to bad mouth someone if they don't do X, Y or Z. If Bob really thinks that this seller is a bad operator, doesn't he have an obligation, irrespective of the sellers subsequent actions, to inform the pipe community that he holds in such high regard? This to me is extortion, and it can not be justified by the sellers bad behavior.
Bob is motivated not by the moral sanctity of the contract with the seller, but by his desire for a low price on a pipe he desires. If he gets the pipe, then he feels that he has no need to warn others about his perceived problems with the seller.
My fur gets rubbed the wrong way, though, when people like Bob threaten to bad mouth someone if they don't do X, Y or Z. If Bob really thinks that this seller is a bad operator, doesn't he have an obligation, irrespective of the sellers subsequent actions, to inform the pipe community that he holds in such high regard? This to me is extortion, and it can not be justified by the sellers bad behavior.
Bob is motivated not by the moral sanctity of the contract with the seller, but by his desire for a low price on a pipe he desires. If he gets the pipe, then he feels that he has no need to warn others about his perceived problems with the seller.
I'm not blaming anyone for anything, Mike. The seller can be angry, but extortion is something else. Bad behavior by the seller is no excuse for improprieties by the bidder.
The seller was well within their rights to cancel the auction. The buyer may not like that, but those are the rules that they agreed to operate under when they joined eBay.
Indeed..after he didn't get his way, which is exactly what he threatened to do if he didn't get his way.
Look, the seller isn't being a nice guy. You and I would not do what he did. But, he is within his rights as an eBay seller to do exactly what he did. Bob is pissed because he didn't get his crackin' good deal, not because the seller transgressed some unwritten moral code. Bob needs to accept reality and move on.
tuold:
"I've been bidding in auctions when a seller suddenly cancels my bid and ends the auction at the last minute. I don't think sellers should be allowed to do that."
Just so! What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and all that! :evil: with the exceptions,briarblues has stated.
"I've been bidding in auctions when a seller suddenly cancels my bid and ends the auction at the last minute. I don't think sellers should be allowed to do that."
Just so! What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and all that! :evil: with the exceptions,briarblues has stated.
Michael, I am not defending the seller, I made that clear. Nor am I postulating about his motives or whether he may or may not actually have a pipe to sell. Those are unknowns, and don't impact his right to end the auction.
Perhaps Bob will stick with established pipe merchants such as yourself for now on.
Perhaps Bob will stick with established pipe merchants such as yourself for now on.
Well stated, as always Mike G.
I keep taking Ebay seller risks but not at Anne Julie cash values!
For the big dollar pipes, stick with the guys who have earned their reputations (like Mike, Steve, etc.)
I keep taking Ebay seller risks but not at Anne Julie cash values!
For the big dollar pipes, stick with the guys who have earned their reputations (like Mike, Steve, etc.)
What Al said. I would only even think about buying an expensive, high end pipe from a known seller, or reputable online etailer. One sees some funny things on ebay, I recall a German seller listing a Larsen Copenhagen pipe three times, each time with the same winning bidder, people must have figured it out, as after the first re-list, the bidding dried up, and each auction closed at a lower price (I was not a bidder at any point, just a watcher).
Dave
Dave
I always thought that an ebay seller wasn't supposed to close an auction with bids submitted. I certainly wouldn't. In fact, as a seller, I have refused offers of people to buy pipes outright because there were bids in. I would definitely "report" a buyer for doing so. But I have no way of knowing what would happen after that.
I traded with Kyle Black some years ago and was fortunate to receive his end. I'm really surprised the lengths people will go to in perpetrating fraud in the cigar and pipe community. They must be equally dishonest in other aspects of their lives.
I traded with Kyle Black some years ago and was fortunate to receive his end. I'm really surprised the lengths people will go to in perpetrating fraud in the cigar and pipe community. They must be equally dishonest in other aspects of their lives.
I see both sides in this transaction. If it were any other seller (if we hadn't attached the Kyle stigma to this thread) I wonder if it would have had been as vehemently discussed.
Final thought: I know it is a pain and chases off a lot of people, but if the seller was so adamant about their price point, they should have put a reserve on it the second time it was listed.
Final thought: I know it is a pain and chases off a lot of people, but if the seller was so adamant about their price point, they should have put a reserve on it the second time it was listed.
@ xrundog........I think it is exactly opposite of what you said......
"I'm really surprised the lengths people will go to in perpetrating fraud in the cigar and pipe community"
I have bought, sold, and traded on this and other forums. I have purchased from James Island Piper, Pulver's Briar, mkelaw-pipes and others. All trusted sellers that when I find something of interest know there will not be any issues. I have not once had anyone not uphold their end of the deal. I have recd. pipes that did not meet my expectations on ebay and on here and have always been able to work things out with the other person. AND on this forum only once and I may have had unrealistic expectations always looking at pipes under 3X magnification.
I think that is why this thread generates a lot of interest, 99.9% of the people in these forums are honest (and other forums) and have integrity. I may be wrong as I am not a mod and not privy to issues behind the scenes. That being said I would still be surprised to hear of a bunch of BS going on behind the scenes. This is our hobby, our forums and this is supposed to be fun. If we wanted to have problems we could just all go out and play in the traffic.
Am I being overly optimistic?
"I'm really surprised the lengths people will go to in perpetrating fraud in the cigar and pipe community"
I have bought, sold, and traded on this and other forums. I have purchased from James Island Piper, Pulver's Briar, mkelaw-pipes and others. All trusted sellers that when I find something of interest know there will not be any issues. I have not once had anyone not uphold their end of the deal. I have recd. pipes that did not meet my expectations on ebay and on here and have always been able to work things out with the other person. AND on this forum only once and I may have had unrealistic expectations always looking at pipes under 3X magnification.
I think that is why this thread generates a lot of interest, 99.9% of the people in these forums are honest (and other forums) and have integrity. I may be wrong as I am not a mod and not privy to issues behind the scenes. That being said I would still be surprised to hear of a bunch of BS going on behind the scenes. This is our hobby, our forums and this is supposed to be fun. If we wanted to have problems we could just all go out and play in the traffic.
Am I being overly optimistic?
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