The Importance of Breaking in All the Way Down

[telescopes]

I know this is taking the thread way off topic, but my current obsession was finding a high quality MasterCraft. In the end, that quest went no where. Previously, it was finding a high quality Marxman. I am happy to report, that I did - a Six Panel Billiard. The other adventure was finding a high quality (comparatively speaking of course) Pipe Maker. That I did as well, and then I broke the button trying to open up the hole a bit more. No worries, I repaired it and no sign of breakage really remains. However, I feel I truly scored with my Kaywoodie Thorn. This pipe truly does rival a Dunhill of the same period.

 

[Donb1972]

I know this is taking the thread way off topic, but my current obsession was finding a high quality MasterCraft. In the end, that quest went no where. Previously, it was finding a high quality Marxman. I am happy to report, that I did - a Six Panel Billiard. The other adventure was finding a high quality (comparatively speaking of course) Pipe Maker. That I did as well, and then I broke the button trying to open up the hole a bit more. No worries, I repaired it and no sign of breakage really remains. However, I feel I truly scored with my Kaywoodie Thorn. This pipe truly does rival a Dunhill of the same period.

Speaking of Kaywoodie...if I could get my hands on a Streamliner, with the briar stem, I could die happy ?

 

[craig61a]

Documentation please. I need documentation to change disbelief in unsubstantiated myths to disbelief in substantiated myths.

Information… Information.

 

[alaskanpiper]

I just load them with a shag for the first few bowls. Mostly because I don’t have to fuss with it at all that way. I try to smoke them all the way down, particularly if they have a bowl coating, but honestly thats just a “whats the downside?” decision based entirely on conjecture and hearsay.

Sometimes I don’t smoke them all the way down for various reasons (time, not feeling it, shitty blend, etc.) and when that happens, I don’t worry about it and it really doesn’t seem to make any significant difference to me. Eventually a carbon layer will form regardless and worrying about such things takes away from the experience.

To each their own. On a side not @Briar Lee I have to say, I admire your ability to take a lot of sh*t with class. While I do agree with most of the criticisms many of the folks here make disagreeing with your viewpoints, you are often met with rather harsh criticism and you seem to take it all in stride and remain level headed and conversational.

Say what they will about your eccentric views on our beloved “hobby”, I don’t think anyone can criticize your passion for pipes and tobacco, nor your plethora of decorum. Keep on keeping on sir, and break in those Lees however you see fit.

 

[telescopes]

@alaskanpiper that was so well stated and I am sure it is a view held by many of us here. I’ve had the same thoughts and always felt criticism could be shared with out being said while looking down. @Briar Lee shares a love of smoking that reminds me of the conversations I use to listen to when the codgers gathered around the parlor in John Dengler Tobacconist’s shop in Old Saint Charles. A man who speaks gently with a pipe in his mouth speaks as a gentleman; point the stem and raise your tone of voice, well it betrays something less in my opinion. You sir, have always been the former and I suppose it is why you influenced me to join the Shape Reformed Church of the Lost Tribe of Dan.

 

[Briar Lee]

Actually, Lee's departure is known and if memory serves, that information was given to you by jguss, pipe historian extraordinaire,

The fact of Lee’s departure is known, but not the date.

Lee pipes have three distinct eras.

The first have deeply inlaid 7 pointed stars on the recessed screw stems.

The second have deeply inlaid 5 pointed stars on recessed screw stems. Polishing I think is slightly better. These are not common.

The third have stamped stars with gold foil impressed in the star, that quickly runs away. Early stamped stars have recessed screw stems, later ones have Kaywoodie type exposed ring screw stems, and the last have cast push stems.

From first to last every Lee was oil cured, had a removable Lee stinger, and except for the very first pipes, were marked as a Limited Edition.

I used to think the editions were limited to how many orders Lee had for that shape in the catalog, but I’m not so sure now. When I get a Lee I remove the stinger and put them in a box, and I’ve noticed that it’s rare that two stingers are exactly the same. I’d like to think there was an operator at the Lee factory that machined a certain number of stingers and then slightly changed the settings on the machine, thus making each run a limited edition.

Lee advertisements said to Reach For The Stars, symbol of the World’s Finest Pipe.

I can’t say a Lee is the best pipe on earth, but I do think none smoke any better, last any longer, are any better constructed, break in easier, and by far Lee had the most beautiful and distinctive counterfeit resistant trade marks ever placed on a briar smoking pipe.

And at least the early Lees had hand cut stems, here easily seen on this 7 pointed star Three Star Lovat.

View attachment 138177

Every briar pipe, is really just a hunk of wood joined to a rubber stem.

None are better, than the ones Lee made.

 

[telescopes]

The fact of Lee’s departure is known, but not the date.

Lee pipes have three distinct eras.

The first have deeply inlaid 7 pointed stars on the recessed screw stems.

The second have deeply inlaid 5 pointed stars on recessed screw stems. Polishing I think is slightly better. These are not common.

The third have stamped stars with gold foil impressed in the star, that quickly runs away. Early stamped stars have recessed screw stems, later ones have Kaywoodie type exposed ring screw stems, and the last have cast push stems.

From first to last every Lee was oil cured, had a removable Lee stinger, and except for the very first pipes, were marked as a Limited Edition.

I used to think the editions were limited to how many orders Lee had for that shape in the catalog, but I’m not so sure now. When I get a Lee I remove the stinger and put them in a box, and I’ve noticed that it’s rare that two stingers are exactly the same. I’d like to think there was an operator at the Lee factory that machined a certain number of stingers and then slightly changed the settings on the machine, thus making each run a limited edition.

Lee advertisements said to Reach For The Stars, symbol of the World’s Finest Pipe.

I can’t say a Lee is the best pipe on earth, but I do think none smoke any better, last any longer, are any better constructed, break in easier, and by far Lee had the most beautiful and distinctive counterfeit resistant trade marks ever placed on a briar smoking pipe.

And at least the early Lees had hand cut stems, here easily seen on this 7 pointed star Three Star Lovat.

View attachment 138177

Every briar pipe, is really just a hunk of wood joined to a rubber stem.

None are better, than the ones Lee made.

I was with you right up until that last statement Mr. Lee. I am not sure the jury will find for the prosecution on that one. Appeal all you would like, but the evidence is irrefutable and speaks for itself, Dunhill had better stems, fit, and finish. The defense rests.

 

[Donb1972]

I was with you right up until that last statement Mr. Lee. I am not sure the jury will find for the prosecution on that one. Appeal all you would like, but the evidence is irrefutable and speaks for itself, Dunhill had better stems, fit, and finish. The defense rests.

Not to pour fuel on the fire, but Dunhill may be "better", but there is no way on earth I would spend that kind of money on a pipe. Just like my '70 Olds Toronado isn't the fanciest car in the world...but I wouldn't give it up for any other car. ?

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

Documentation please. I need documentation to change disbelief in unsubstantiated myths to disbelief in substantiated myths.
Oh, and the internal temperature you quote is wrong.
Is there change at the surface? Sure, just not of the sort that Lee and you are trying to pitch. Wood gets slightly charred,, more if the smoker doesn't know what he or she is doing. It gets carbonized and then gets coated with carbon from the tobacco. It doesn't turn into something else.

But hey, bring it on, show me the studies.

It's the fifth post in the thread.

 

[sasquatch]

"Attacked by a rabid file" and "hand cut" are not the same thing at all.

At one point, @Briar Lee you put up a picture of a higher grade Lee, a 5 star or so, and that stem had a rather different look to it, slotting etc. But absolutely none of these factory pipes at factory pipe prices pipes got hand cut stems. Even the "hand made" Kaywoodies didn't. It's pretty rare in the pipe world, but rarest of all in a 2 dollar drug store pipe.

 

[sablebrush52]

The fact of Lee’s departure is known, but not the date.

Actually, jguss gave you the approximate date, pretty early in the game.

 

[sablebrush52]

It's the fifth post in the thread.

It's an interesting read but as you may noticed in it, heat treating is also detrimental to the strength of the wood so treated.

Going through a bit more reading, about air seasoning, that's considered the best method, but the problem is that it takes a long time to achieve the same structural changes, though without diminishing the strength of the wood.
Seasoning wood will change it's chemistry a bit as water and oils evaporate from it.

And guess what? All wood that jhas been used in making pipes is already seasoned. It's already cured. So the bit about "heat curing" during the "break in" process remains a myth because the wood is already cured long before you put a match to it.

Does putting a match to wood cause further changes? Sure, though the kind of change varies from species to species. And briar, having a significant amount of silicate sediment scattered through it by the environment in which it is grown, has a higher heat and fire resistance than other species of wood.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

It's an interesting read but as you may noticed in it, heat treating is also detrimental to the strength of the wood so treated.

Excuse me?

The first paragraph of the article states that heat curing increases durability:

Thermally modified wood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Thermally modified wood is wood that has been modified by a controlled pyrolysis process of wood being heated (> 180 °C) in absence of oxygen inducing some chemical changes to the chemical structures of cell wall components (lignin, cellulose and hemicellulose) in the wood in order to increase its durability."

 

[sablebrush52]

Excuse me?

The first paragraph of the article states that heat curing increases durability:

Thermally modified wood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Thermally modified wood is wood that has been modified by a controlled pyrolysis process of wood being heated (> 180 °C) in absence of oxygen inducing some chemical changes to the chemical structures of cell wall components (lignin, cellulose and hemicellulose) in the wood in order to increase its durability."

Try reading the whole article. You’ll find the statement.

 

[Eye-level]

I dont worry about breaking in my pipes...they're all estates so who knows how they were broke in...since none of them have burnt up already I figure they probably wont for a long time yet.

And personally many many times I just dont care to smoke a bowl to ash so there's that...

 

[craig61a]

"Attacked by a rabid file" and "hand cut" are not the same thing at all.

At one point, @Briar Lee you put up a picture of a higher grade Lee, a 5 star or so, and that stem had a rather different look to it, slotting etc. But absolutely none of these factory pipes at factory pipe prices pipes got hand cut stems. Even the "hand made" Kaywoodies didn't. It's pretty rare in the pipe world, but rarest of all in a 2 dollar drug store pipe.

But, but what about the hand ladled 24 k gold stars…?

 

[JOHN72]

The truth is, I agree with sable and hoosier. It gives me good results smoking, slow and cold. It is the only way to get the most out of tobacco. When I have smoked under stress, I never finish, and end up emptying the pipe, cleaning it and leaving it on the shelf.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

Try reading the whole article. You’ll find the statement.

I read the statement days ago, all you have is a strawman.

It takes all of five minutes of searching to find swaths of supporting research, but you choose to cherry pick one point (tensile strength) that isn't even related to the subject being discussed.

Sable, all you've done to this point is parrot your own bias and refuse to demonstrate any capacity for learning.
Clearly you are out of your depth and the intelligent thing to do when confronted with a subject you know nothing about is to not speak about it.

 

[Briar Lee]

"Attacked by a rabid file" and "hand cut" are not the same thing at all.

At one point, @Briar Lee you put up a picture of a higher grade Lee, a 5 star or so, and that stem had a rather different look to it, slotting etc. But absolutely none of these factory pipes at factory pipe prices pipes got hand cut stems. Even the "hand made" Kaywoodies didn't. It's pretty rare in the pipe world, but rarest of all in a 2 dollar drug store pipe.

That Three Star Lovat shows less filing on the bottom of the bit.

View attachment 138290The Lee customer could walk in any drugstore and buy a decent pipe for a dollar and a Kaywoodie Drinkless for $3.50 in 1946.

Lee apparently sold his pipes mail order.

Aside from the very first year where a unicorn rare $3.50 One Star was cataloged, the customer picked a shape and paid $5, $10, $15, or $25.

1946 was the year that Lord (soon to be Baron) Inverchapel (British Ambassador to the USA) resplendent in his Saville Row suits and accompanied by his shockingly young and gorgeous Latin American socialite second wife made the tobacco trade News for finding two London made pipes for $15 each at a Utah pipe shop.

Four Star $15 Lee pipes are scarce today.

$10 Three Stars like that Lovat are by far the most common 7 pointed star Lees found.

Somehow, Lee marketed his pipes to a well heeled, fastidious customer base that were on waiting lists for new Packards, Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Imperials.

Five Star Lees are much more common than Four Stars.



OLD FIVE AND DIMERS LIKE ME

 

[sablebrush52]

I read the statement days ago, all you have is a strawman.

It takes all of five minutes of searching to find swaths of supporting research, but you choose to cherry pick one point (tensile strength) that isn't even related to the subject being discussed.

Sable, all you've done to this point is parrot your own bias and refuse to demonstrate any capacity for learning.
Clearly you are out of your depth and the intelligent thing to do when confronted with a subject you know nothing about is to not speak about it.

I knew that you would respond with some BS. It's your source, so I'll quote if for you using a screen grab:



But the more salient issue is that the point you are so determined to make is utterly beside the point. This may be difficult for you to understand, but the briar has already been seasoned, let me repeat this in case you missed it. The briar has ALREADY BEEN SEASONED, before being turned into a pipe that someone, including people with learning disabilities, can smoke.

The discussion isn't whether or not the wood has been treated. We all know that it has been treated. The discussion is about the myth of "breaking in curing" that our resident Pipes By Lee expert is ruminating upon.

So carry on. I won't be taking any more time over this. Life is too short and I don't suffer people of a certain description.