The Historical Collection of the Hungarian National Museum

[jpmcwjr]

Thanks. If Peterson used the "Oom Paul" designation it wasn't for long. I hadn't realized Ireland sided with the Dutch in the Boer War!

Still, if your dad, uncle, grandfather referred to it as an Oom Paul, it's gonna stick a long time.

 

[Duck]

There may be a lack of photographic evidence of Paul Kruger smoking a full bent chimney. However, there was the phenomenon of Boer War pipes of that shape were carved by participants of both sides. They referred to a pipe of that shape as a Kruger.

 

[Hillcrest]

One might conclude from my posts on this subject going back seven years that I despise the name and the m-f for whom many call that shape.

First, calm down as I agree with you 100% but for objective reasons.

Second it should never have been called an Oom Paul in any professional pipe reference as that was a slang term. He did in fact smoke a bent pipe from Hungary and his friends did in fact buy him a custom engraved Peterson. I thought I was clear before but will restate : NO English or French or Italian pipe maker at the time ever referred to that shape as an Oom Paul but did refer to large full bent pipes as Hungarians. (Try to find Oom Paul in their catalogs at the time.) Why ? My guess is because prior to the advent of the introduction of a bent Hungarian brought back from the Boer War --- no western pipe maker made bent pipes....they were all straight. I guess I disagree with Irwin here. He refers to it an an Oom Paul not Peterson !

Hungary had been making pipes since 1702. England and France didn't have an industry until the 1850s -(ish!) so Hungary was ahead of the west by 148ish years ! Why because the ottoman Empire ruled over Hungary from 1541-1699 and introduced large bent meerschaum pipes which impressed the Hungarians. Eventually they imported them and started making their own of various substances including wood.

My point is that any large bent pipe can properly be called a Hungarian and no pipe should be called an Oom Paul. I don't even really know the history of Kruger but I do know he was uneducated and I stopped there. Do I have proof acceptable in a court of law ? No, I've just been reading many sources to reach my own educated opinion. Facts fly fast and loose on this website but some of us seem to be held to a higher standard by others. Also my opinion, the Hungarians probably saw a few Tyrolean pipes and branched out to briar and porcelin and different shapes - 148 years is a long time. The point is they were ahead of the English french and italians.

So anyway, Please stop being upset - WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE! - If you want to be upset be upset at the newspaper reporters of the time who said Kroger smoked a Hungarian pipe. That's who started this argument.
I don't know the man, probably wouldn't agree with him or like him (many at the time didn't - apparently he didn't clean his pipe ! ) but I am proud of the Hungarians for this and many other reasons like the fact that they had more Universities in their country than any other country in the world for about 300 years and 96% of their people on average are college educated. Again - facts I have read elsewhere and accept because I want to and haven't been refuted yet.

By the way, Happy Easter and try to have a joyous day. I do wish you all the best !

 

[Hillcrest]

P.S. In Post # 19 - quotes 2 and 3 are not from me but from the article I cited and I should have used quote marks; for failing to do that I apoligize.
P.P.S. The happy result of my own reading and research is that i found out my Erica second (Peterson) is not a 307 shape but in fact is most probably an 01 House pipe - the one preferred by Charles Peterson himself; it is 22mm+ x 52mm+. I will consider it a Hungarian privately.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Sorry, Hillcrest; my being pissed off about Kruger has naught to do with you.
As you've seen, monographs that are convincing are few and far between.

 

[Hillcrest]

Sorry, Hillcrest; my being pissed off about Kruger has naught to do with you.
As you've seen, monographs that are convincing are few and far between.

Not to worry. Maybe we should notify the pipe manufacturers that the term is inaccurate and racist and return to the traditional pipe shape names or start a petition. just an idea ...
Wait 'till we get to "Bing's Favorite" (!) ... Don't get me started !!!