The FDA is "ramping up on aromatics"

[captainbob]

If you have not already participated in the "Public Opinion" of the FDA (FTCA legislation) cracking down on Aromatics, get ready to have your future spoiled!
As the late Craig Tarler warned me,"when the FDA begins the next phase on pipe tobacco, it will become painfully obvious that our days are numbered". He gave it "five-years". Well, it appears that the phase has now begun under the Obama Administration.
The cost to comply, as Craig stated "will be enough to eliminate aromatic pipe tobacco from the market". I value the fact that (according to "the late" Craig Tarler) 70% of pipe tobacco sold has a flavoring added. I do believe that this dooms-day is now upon us and I would welcome anyone following the "news" to dispute this tragedy. I would like to hear the current views from our beloved Manufacturers and what they now know to be a "looming compliance factor", what it will cost all of us and what they view as the ultimate outcome.

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[captainbob]

Well, it is Obama's Law and it stands. He has ordered the implementation and I am only reporting what has been in the news. I refuse to get "political" and I will not engage in any bantering about the facts because they are "the facts". I shall leave this topic alone for the rest of you to discuss (if you desire to do so). But, please be informed of the "threat" we pipe smokers are approaching with a very "real" Law that is in place and that was signed into Law by our President. He has ordered it to move forward.

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[cmdrmcbragg]

There is a two year compliance period IF the additional regulatory approvals go through in the next week or so. So, yes, this could make things tougher for pipe tobaccos and certainly for the smaller artisan blenders. But, there is still two years from whenever this is enacted until it takes effect.
Everything prior to 2007 is grandfathered in and has nothing to worry about.
I have faith that this won't be a death blow to the industry and will just be an extra pain in the ass for them when it comes time to do paperwork and we all just end up paying a few extra pennies to get an order from P&C since age verification is the only thing they are concerned with online.

 

[andrew]

The Department of Justice (DOJ) is strongly encouraging banks

See strongly encouraging will get a polite f*ck you from banks in response. Banks like money, banks can afford really expensive lawyers to fight this stuff, pornography and tobacco etc. brings banks alot of money. If anything I more see big time taxes coming in on everything. It's kind of shooting yourself in the foot to outright ban something that you can tax like crazy and people will still buy, which has already been proven in Canada as the price of cigarettes has tripled pretty much since I started buying cigarettes compared to now, also I remember a 50 gram pouch of pipe tobacco costing like 13$ about 15 years ago and that same pouch is about 35$ now, 40$ some places I've heard for a 50 gram pouch of otc tobacco. So it doesn't make sense to ban it when you can tax the crap out of it to pay for things like Universal health care.

 

[cmdrmcbragg]

I doubt banks look at tobacco business and firearm businesses the same. Here in Colorado there is a push for banks to be allowed to make loans for recreational marijuana businesses, which are booming here. Pulled in millions of dollars in taxes over just the first few months after the shops opened for business.
The FDA regs even state that they do NOT have the authority to outright ban tobacco products, but they (with the help of Congress) dictate taxes.
"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." The FDA would be on step 2.

 

[bzero007]

I doubt banks look at tobacco business and firearm businesses the same.

I have to agree with this as things of this nature are usually a show and with incidents that have been pretty regularly and are in the media and minds of some for long you can see why i bank wouldn't stand up for a firearm business. Crappy i agree as they are more than likely following the laws and such but with as much crap as banks have put the entire country in I don't see them backing firearm business. Its all a show some people want to be in the spot light shouting about something and some will quietly nod along.
Regarding tobacco only thing i can see is an increase coming tax wise, which we should all keep our fingers crossed it is not too much.
Just a quick addition also, The biggest thing the FDA is going after in its request to gain control of all the new tobacco related products is E-Cig/Vaps and such. For sometime now in the news and on the hill it has been brought up the concern that there is no regulation on what the solutions contain. Also if you think of how many people are switching to ecigs and the taxable revenue lost in years to come is probably pretty scary to some. So instead of singling out Ecigs/vaps they group everything together, they really could care less about pipe and cigar smoking honestly as its still considered a luxury item or indulgence to many who are making these laws.

 

[mso489]

I have often noticed how much of the inventory of most blenders is aromatic. It seems it is more than half the

market in pipe tobacco. That isn't reflected in the Forums membership as near as I can tell. But if the aromatic

segment of the market is eliminated, narrowed, or priced up significantly, it will likely affect the pricing on all

blends, in a effort by tobacco retailers to keep the pipe tobacco segment profitable. As they used to say over

the intercom on the minesweeper, standby for heavy rolls.

 

[northernneil]

Sounds like this FDA regulation might force people to get good taste :nana:

 

[cmdrmcbragg]

I really don't foresee this affecting us pipe smokers all this much. They are opening the umbrella because of e-cigs and trying to catch the lost revenue from that while tightening regs to cover those bases. Pipe and cigar is being lumped in because the net is being cast.
I foresee an increase in taxes, which were going to happen anyways because government likes it money and it makes them look good "trying to do something" in the interest of public health. The flavored stuff is only being restricted from cigarettes. Swisher still pumps out cherry and grape blunts. I don't expect any change in aromatics.

 

[captainbob]

It looks like I started a "hot" Topic and I am pleased with the response. Thank you all for participating. I enjoyed your responses. Personally, I do fear the future of pipe tobacco. I wish that I could be more optimistic. I think our treasured pipe tobacco will become more expensive and many blends we love will be lost. What I think will remain is the most popular blends producing the most revenue for the manufacturer's because the cost for compliance with the FDA/FTCA will be a very big deal for pipe tobacco manufacturers. Especially, the small ones like McClelland and Cornell and Diehl. It is gratifying that so many of you appear to be informed. This is a great improvement over the "denial" and "lack of understanding" shown in the Forum's when the FTCA was initially legislated. Thank you for sharing your views.

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[cmdrmcbragg]

I'm optimistic because pipe tobacco isn't what they are after. There aren't kids flocking to pick up grandpa's pipe and pack it full of Captain Black. They want to stop kids from smoking cigarettes, dipping and the Feds want their cut of e-cig money while also making regulations for them. I believe they will pretty much leave pipes and cigars alone. Call me hopeful, I just don't see how it is worth their time to do so because it just isn't the bad guy in the room of tobacco villains.

 

[monty55]

Thanks for this thread captainbob. It's good to stay informed on current events such as this. And it's threads like yours that help keep many of us educated.

 

[bzero007]

Vaps/ECigs have been in the news on and off for well over a year with calls for more scrutiny on ingredients. NIH and multiple health departments and organizations have asked for it to happen as in their words its a new product with no regulation and zero idea whats in the solution. Projections have been made for over the next decade for people switching and started to smoke with ecigs/vaps and the numbers scared them enough that they will loose a chunk of taxes and will steadily decline, so they are trying to catch it early. Pipe smokers and cigars are the last thing on their mind due to the pool being so minimal compared to how huge cigarettes are and the money they make from it....and maybe health things...meh.
Our baccy is safe, even if they were to charge more taxes on the baccy for pipes it would just be passed on to the customer so businesses would be fine as the amount would be mininal if anything.

 

[bigboi]

Great thread. I believe the government will lump in pipe tobacco with the other tobacco taxes. Not only will they start taxing the tobacco more, but also the internet sales tax that they trying to push to allow for states to charge their own state tax on products to vendors outside of the state will also cause tobacco to cost more. Here in WA a 50 gram tin of Orlik Golden Slices cost $27. I have found it a bit cheaper in one spot, but for the most part B &M's stick to bulk tobaccos because tins cost the customer way to much.

 

[andrew]

Sounds like this FDA regulation might force people to get good taste

I value the fact that (according to "the late" Craig Tarler) 70% of pipe tobacco sold has a flavoring added.

I think there's a lot of flavors that you wouldn't necessarily think of that are added. Like in the 3 nuns recipe thread it was shown that they were using perique flavor, rum, etc... It's a slippery slope, anything with sweetened cavendish would more than likely be included. I'm sure alot of the tobacco's we smoke that we think of as a straight english blend have added flavors we don't know about. 70% is alot of the market, I wouldn't be surprised if blends like EMP, Nightcap, the list goes on have added flavors you don't know about. I'm sure those 30% of the blends left are ones that are cheap RYO blends that are disguised as pipe tobacco. I think we'd be left with a very boring choice of blends.

Our baccy is safe, even if they were to charge more taxes on the baccy for pipes it would just be passed on to the customer so businesses would be fine as the amount would be mininal if anything.

I think you'd be quite surprised when you see what "minimal" taxes are. Being the customer it should concern you, where I am I just heard a 50gm pouch of amphora red is now 40$. That same pouch would of cost 12$ 15 years ago.

 

[zanthipal]

Before concocting a theory that "the Obama Administration" or "the FDA" are to blame for the new regulations, one should understand the legislation that the FDA is required to enforce. The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of 2009 passed the House of Representatives 298 to 112, and the Senate by 79-17. That included 70 Republican "yes" votes in the House, and 23 "yes" votes in the Senate. Also that is passage with a veto proof margin. Yes, President Obama signed it into law, but Congress is the one that passed the law that leads to the FDA regulations.

The FDA is only allowed to promulgate regulations pursuant to Acts of Congress, and that is what it is proposing to do now, five years later (with the usual speed of any large bureaucracy).

So, if you have a complaint about the proposed regulations, start complaining to your Representative and Senator in Congress, they are the ones who started this and can fix it.

 

[cmdrmcbragg]

Thank you, @zanthipal. Too many people are quick to jump on the president for everything under the sun. I'm no fan of Obama (nor did I vote for him in either election) but there is a missing link amongst Ameicans of how the government works. This is certainly not helped by Obama declaring what he will do with executive power, but even that can only go so far. Taxes are set by Congress. When Obama says he is going to do something about (insert issue) it is usually still going to require Congressional support and approval to make it happen.
This is excluding backroom deals and power plays, etc., but regardless you have to hold Congress accountable first and foremost for their role in anything because they are the ones who can cast votes and it isn't just run by one party: the Dems control the Senate and the Republicans control the House.

 

[plateauguy]

I will not engage in any bantering about the facts because they are "the facts".

Thankyou CaptainBob for informing and keeping it in perspective.
I'd like to believe this really won't happen, but I'm afraid it will. I've contacted the FDA and expressed my concerns. I would encourage all to do the same. P&C has a link available.

 

[mrenglish]

In my opinion, pipe tobacco will be hit as well. In large part this is due to the RYO companies changing their marketing to say its pipe tobacco. While I am hopeful calm heads at the FDA will approve a distinction between real pipe tobacco and RYO, I am doubtful. Its just another revenue stream for the government. Pipe tobacco has a pretty low tax rate all things considered and excepting a few states. While I am not sure if it will ever be banned, hopefully not, I feel that the price of our tobaccos will climb to what Canada and the European citizens have to pay.
I know one of the dolts who is trying to raise the OTP in Ohio has claimed it does not matter what the tax rate is, smokers will pay it. Like we are the same as cigarette smokers.

 

[brass]

From G.K. Chesterton, early 20th century pundit and cigar smoking, whisky drinking, pistol toting Catholic convert currently under review for possible canonization.
"It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged."

From The Cleveland Press, March 1, 1921
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected."

From the Illustrated London News April 19, 1924
"All government is an ugly necessity."

From A Short History of England