The Draw?

[Flatfish]

Skip at the Briary said that Rick Newcombe was the worst influence on pipe smokers ever with his book Pipe Dreams.

I've read that book

Don't recall seeing any cobs in it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I've read that book

Don't recall seeing any cobs in it.

No, not cobs, but he did advocate for redrilling drafts. He has a whole chapter called "Your Pipes Should Have an Open Draw," which led to people taking drill to their pipes.

 

[Ahi Ka]

They're only like that because they're filter pipes

 

[anotherbob]

What are the effects of the size of the draw?

This is what I know (or think I know) so far.

The draw is the size of the hole. The bigger it is, the easier it is to suck.

Corncobs seem to have a bigger draw than a briar. Some briar owners sometimes make the hole bigger.

I assume pipe makers have a range of drill bits and consider the size hole they will drill.

Thanks

I think that draw also can effect the way the smoke tastes too. I find the more restricted draws seem to concentrate and marry flavors more. I find open draws to taste slightly muted and to have more individually discernable flavors. How much do I notice this difference? Not enough to care one way or the other.
Other factors too. Open draws are more likely to suck bits through. Tighter draws are more likely to gurgle and get clogged with moisture.
But like many pipe things there are effects that are immutable (whether noticed or not), but it comes down to personal preference.

 

[anotherbob]

The fact that so many people modify airways is one of the worst things to happen to my pipe buying. With all the other things that affect a pipe from the maker, I now have to worry about consumers screwing with them. They have every right. I'm not saying anything to the contrary. But it is something of modern times that I have to consider. I never ran into this problem until sometime in the 2000s.

I don't care for the modern perspective of wide open draws. For me, they're like smoking through a McDonald's straw. I get muted flavor. I like some resistance, and I like how a traditional diameter concentrates the flavor. I'm not talking about any struggling, but I know I'm pulling through a bowl of compacted leaf and then through a smaller airway than when normally breathing. I like and prefer that.

so glad I am not the only one. I have had so many pipe smokers insist that I somehow don't know my own experience with pipes. The number of times I've been told something doesn't mute flavor or alter it, when it's pretty obvious to me what I taste. Reminds me of that vegan that told me it was in my head that I could tell the difference in taste between soy imitations and real meat. Or in other words I am waiting for a blind person to tell me what I can and cannot see in a painting. "You idiot you can't create an illusion of dimension and space"!!!!

 

[anotherbob]

No, not cobs, but he did advocate for redrilling drafts. He has a whole chapter called "Your Pipes Should Have an Open Draw," which led to people taking drill to their pipes.

I am kind of sick of the right way smokers. That's a bad pipe. The only way to pack the pipe is....
Those people are annoying.

 

[timt]

not every pipe smoker wants to have that airy, tasteless smoke that a wide open draw gives. Some may love it, and I assume most of these are newbies that aren't quite sure what they prefer yet... maybe not yet developing a preference.

Ah cosmic, always ready to play the provocateur. Well done!

I’ve never bothered to alter a pipe but I love a wide open airway. Can’t say I buy into the flavorless smoke of an open airway theory but I’m willing to pay more attention and report back…scratch that, I’ve been paying attention and I’m not buying it.

 

[Zeno Marx]

Skip at the Briary said that Rick Newcombe was the worst influence on pipe smokers ever with his book Pipe Dreams.

I've wondered where this crap started. F*#K!

I bought an estate pipe last year, and before the seller boxed it up, they asked, "Do you want me to open up the draft a little? It's a bit tight." I can be a little lazy about responding to someone right way, but with this one, before I moved the mouse again, I was replying, "NO! NO, PLEASE, NO! I buy this maker of pipe specifically because the airways are perfect for me."

 

[Doctor Chopper]

Hate to complicate the question, as nobody else on this forum ever makes things more complicated or nuanced. But let's get into it!

Pipes like anything else abide by physical laws, and a pipe is largely laminar vs turbulent flow patterns. Yes, the biggest factor is bore size, but there are many other factors. Start with the fact the if a 4mm bore has a single small narrowing to 3mm, then it will slow it down (poor drilling, not lined up well) (tobacco piece in the entrance). The open area for a filter will increase the turbulence and air pattern even if a filter is not in place. The resistance of the walls including material and smoothness matter (Briar vs meer vs metal) (bristle cleaners scratching the walls) (burnout) (defects unseen). The length of the tube matters (churchwarden). The shape of the tube matters (straight, bent, more unusual angles). The temperature of the air matters (tobacco choice, smoking pace, size of bowl). Buildup of 'cake' matters. Thickness of the smoke matters. How fast the air is moving through the tube (sipper vs puffer), and air will be moving faster in a smaller bore to get the same draw. It all starts with the tightness of the packing of tobacco.

I know some of this pipe flow well, as I have a wife and 5 girls with long hair.... And we all know the dude who plugs the toilet every road trip. (and you also know if it is you! - probably pack your pipe too tight as well)

I am not getting my physics textbooks back out, but I will conclude that many factors are involved with an individual pipe and smoker beyond bore and shape alone including the quality of manufacturer, maintenance by owner, and smoking technique can make a big difference in preference.

 

[brian64]

I think the difference in smoking technique accounts for the preference of how open the draw is. I prefer a more open draw because I typically do not actually draw on the pipe while smoking...or at least very little...I just breathe through my nose. But I can see how someone who more actively puffs on the pipe would prefer a tighter draw. This just doesn't work for me no matter how carefully I pack the pipe...just results in tongue bite.

Several comments in this thread have pointed out that filter pipes without a filter have a more open draw, which seems quite obvious to me...but I made this point a while back and it was met with stern disagreement for some inexplicable reason.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Ah cosmic, always ready to play the provocateur. Well done!

I’ve never bothered to alter a pipe but I love a wide open airway. Can’t say I buy into the flavorless smoke of an open airway theory but I’m willing to pay more attention and report back…scratch that, I’ve been paying attention and I’m not buying it.

So, you disagree that at some point of openness the flavor can decrease? I didn’t specify how open, nor do I know at what point.
I have some pipes more open than others, and, for me, there is a point where flavor diminishes. For you, maybe not so much. YMMV

 

[timt]

So, you disagree that at some point of openness the flavor can decrease? I didn’t specify how open, nor do I know at what point.
I have some pipes more open than others, and, for me, there is a point where flavor diminishes. For you, maybe not so much. YMMV

No, I haven’t noticed that at all. If I’m getting thin smoke it’s easily addressed with a little tamp.

 

[bullet08]

So.. What is your quest?

 

[briarblues]

IMHO there is a point when an open draw does degrade the flavor and even altering the packing technique cannot "correct".

However, what that open "threshold" is, varies for each different person and what each of us assess as an open draw.

What is too open? 5/32" , 3.8mm, 4mm, 5mm, more .... less?

Personally, my perfect air passage measurement is 3.8 - 4mm. With the type of tobaccos I enjoy, they way I pack a pipe, those measurements lead me to a good to great smoke each time, no matter which pipe in my collection I select.

I have smoked pipes with a more open draw and also a tighter draw. More open than 4mm does not work for me. Less than 3.8mm does not work for me.

It's not rocket science. It's not something to over think. Pipe smoking is a simple enjoyable pass time. I see far too many trying to chase that perfect smoke and thinking it's all about the pipe. After all these years I believe it's the pipe smokers lack of technique as opposed to the quality of pipe, draw, chamber size, wall thickness and all the other variables we appear to think about. Sit back .... relax ..... learn to smoke your pipes. Forget the brand stamped on the pipe. Forget what the stem material is. Forget the price paid. They mean nothing in the grand scheme of things!

Now I'll crawl back into my cave ( ok really my office ) fill a pipe and enjoy it.......

Mike

 

[Wet Dottle]

Just a few thoughts, based on my experience (with briar pipes only). The draft seems to be determined by the narrowest passage in the pipe. Sometimes it's the shank, sometimes the stem, sometimes both. The right part must be addressed to open the draw adequately. Similarly, pipes with filter may or may not have an open draw. I've found both, but I've also found that pipes with filters are generally drilled with larger and more generous channels. But I've had filter pipes with difficult draws.

I find that the the best flavor comes from a slow and effortless draw. That's what I want in my pipes. Some have needed adjustment, others not. For that, I use a 5/32" drill. I tried several sizes, starting from small to large, and this seems to be the minimum that works for me. Some pipes have draft channels larger than that drilled by the maker, but I never noticed them to smoke any worse for it. Besides an easy draw, the advantage of having a larger draft hole through the shank is that it doesn't build cake as quickly, therefore maintenance is easier. You pass a reamer through your shank from time to time, right?

Finally, I don't buy or sell used pipes, so what others do is not here nor there. But ultimately what I recommend is to try out different things. That's how you gain experience and find out what works best for you. And that's what we are all looking after.

 

[dunnyboy]

I started out smoking English and a few Danish pipes that had a more restricted flow than my current pipes, mostly from Italy and Germany, do. I have adjusted to the more open draw but find it requires more care in packing than the narrower-draft pipes did. Not sure the physics supports this, but I think the more restricted flow smooths out variations in packing density better than the more open draft does. Or maybe it just makes it harder to puff too hard. In any case, I found those traditional English pipes more forgiving.

 

[Chasing Embers]

View attachment 219361

Tobaccanite is definitely a risk to the filter crowd.

 

[bullet08]

Draw is just that, draw. If you have a functioning breathing system with an intact mouth and a tongue, you can regulate simple smoke entering into your person. It's like a straw. Do you have a problem chocking on your beverage of choice from Mickey D because their straw is wider than one from Hardee's? I like wide open draw, but I don't suck on it like a $20 whore. I just let it flow with minimum sipping.

 

[brian64]

The draft seems to be determined by the narrowest passage in the pipe. Sometimes it's the shank, sometimes the stem, sometimes both.

Based only on my subjective experience, this just doesn't seem to be true. A larger channel in the shank on a filter pipe seems to create a more open draw even if the stem is the same as on a non-filter pipe with a narrower channel.

It may be that the difference I'm noticing is more related to making it easier to stay lit with the wider shank channel...and maybe I'm just interpreting it as a more open draw. This is also the problem with the straw analogy...it doesn't correlate with the need to keep the tobacco lit...hence it is not so simple as a straw and beverage.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Tobaccanite is definitely a risk to the filter crowd.

It’s even a risk for the non-filter crowd!