The Donner Party

[indianafrank]

I watched a TV documentary last night about the Donner Party. This group of men, women, and young children struggled with cold, and hunger, in the 1840's while trekking through the Sierra Nevada's on their way to CA. They began their journey as a wagon train, but ended up walking through the incredible terrain of the mts. The documentary told the story of how the party dealt with extreme hunger because of the lack of food for so many months. Some of the party members turned to cannibalism. However, what I found strange was the documentary showed two male individuals actually smoking their pipes as they awaited their fate. Could it be the two men packed and carried more pipe tobacco than food? Or was the pipe smoking scenes just an added piece for the film? I read a book about the Donner Party years ago. But I don't remember if their were any pipe smokers mentioned.

 

[prairiedruid]

Chunk of plug tobacco can provide a lot of smokes and doesn't take up a lot of space. A pound or two of plug would last you quite some time.

 

[rhoadsie]

Talk about smoking on an empty stomach! :evil:
I'm intrigued and need to read up on this, thanks

 

[cynicismandsugar]

"We took two or three blankets for protection against frosty weather in the mountains. In the matter of luxuries we were modest--we took none along but some pipes and five pounds of smoking tobacco." — Mark Twain, Roughing It, Chapter II

This quote may be a bit off topic, but Mark Twain was a semi-contemporary to the time of the Donner Party, being a young child when the incident happened. However when Mark Twain recounted his own experiences in setting out in search of his own fortune — now as a young man — he made notice of the importance of both food and tobacco as equal nourishment for the "spirit."

"Nothing helps scenery like ham and eggs. Ham and eggs, and after these a pipe—an old, rank, delicious pipe—ham and eggs and scenery, a "down grade," a flying coach, a fragrant pipe and a contented heart—these make happiness." — Mark Twain, Roughing It

So, I don't see why certain members of the Donner Party would have felt any differently on the matter.

 

[seacaptain]

Too bad they weren't smoking Penzance. 100 people would have rushed out there to rescue them.

 

[davet]

^ :rofl:

 

[johnnyreb]

There is a new movie about the Donner party just released a couple of wks ago on a limited basis called, " Dead of Winter: the Donner Party". There have been a couple of earlier movies & TV movies made before. I recall one from about 2008-2009 just called "The Donner Party". They all seem to go for the sensational cannibalism stuff.

 

[sablebrush52]

If they had packed along a few Ewoks they would have been fine.

 

[cynicismandsugar]

Ewoks + knapsacks = more tobacco storage
Partially hollow out a few of the Ewokes, and you get even more storage.
And if things go from bad to worse, I hear Ewok taste like Care Bear.

 

[phil67]

However, what I found strange was the documentary showed two male individuals actually smoking their pipes as they awaited their fate.

Why would you find that strange? Hell, if there were such a thing as cigarettes back then and I was in the same situation I would more likely than not be smoking them. There are a plethora of documentaries on WW2 which shows soldiers in very dire situations, i.e. being terribly wounded and smoking a cigarette while on a stretcher. As for them (the Donner party) carrying more tobacco than food I find that highly unlikely. Also, as for any books written on the Donner party expedition why on earth would the writer bother to mention if they smoked a pipe, which for all significant purposes, would be totally irrelevant.

 

[davet]

The rugby? team that crashed in the Andes had loads of cigarettes while they were stranded. They had been bought at the duty free shop but if I was headed out across the continent by wagon train tobacco would be included in my supplies, no B&M's to stop at.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

All work an no play makes Jack a dull boy!

redruM, redruM, redruM!
Sorry, I couldn't stop myself. Whenever I hear about the Donner Party, I imagine Jack Nicholson smashing through the door with an ax.

 

[aldecaker]

My, how times have changed. 170 years later, a lot of people would put up with that kind of hardship to get the hell out of California.

 

[bigpond]

However, what I found strange was the documentary showed two male individuals actually smoking their pipes as they awaited their fate. Could it be the two men packed and carried more pipe tobacco than food? Or was the pipe smoking scenes just an added piece for the film?

That anecdote was ascribed to a member of the "Forlorn Hope" party, a smaller group that left on snowshoes to find help for the rest. Pipe fragments made of kaolin clay were found at the Murphy cabin, a respite for the party, which support evidence of widespread tobacco use.
It's far easier to ration tobacco then food, particularly when the supply of each is disproportionate.

 

[indianafrank]

phil67

Why would you find that strange?

I may not have been clear what I wrote. What I found strange was the fact they had more tobacco than food.

 

[fitzy]

MMMM Baby, the other other white meat. Get in my belly!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Whenever I watched that movie about the Rugby team that crashed in the Andes in 1972, I couldn't understand what the big deal was. I'm starving and someone dies, easy peasy, rump roast on the grill. I would probably start salivating and poking at the other survivors, asking them how they feel, testing their muscles for tenderness and juiciness, going over what spices we had on hand to season them with.

Yep, and some tobacco to end a hard day of cooking the pilot. Sounds great!!

I would hate to be in the Donner party without my pipe for dessert, but a cup of coffee would make it all just perfect.
Anyone want to go camping with me?

 

[iamn8]

As a general rule, I am anti-cannibalizim... While nobody knows what they'd do in such a situation, I like to think I'd sooner starve to death while smoking a pipe. It's been a plan, a goal in my life to never starve to death or eat people. As a matter of fact, those two goals are pretty high on my list. I like to think that when I'm on my death bed, I'll say "I could've done better, but at least I never starved or ate people".

 

[brudnod]

When I was at the American Heart Association in 2006 Dr. Roberto Canessa was the featured speaker for the Pediatric Cardiology keynote dinner. He was a survivor of the 1972 Andes plane crash and discussed much of the events with some photos of the time. He is currently a pediatric cardiologist and had everyone in the audience crying but the end of the talk. He most talked about the reverence that was given to the dead whose flesh they survived on. There were a couple of photos of him and others smoking cigarettes...

 

[davet]

As a general rule, I am anti-cannibalizim

Admirable of you Nate

a goal in my life to never starve to death or eat people

Rules to live by. :rofl: