The Dilemma of Classic Pipe Brands

[mikethompson]

I'm going to use Peterson as my example because to me they encapsulate perfectly what I'm trying to say.

It must be incredibly hard for a classic brand or make (like Peterson) to come up with new ideas and stay fresh. For example, when most of us think of a Peterson shape, there is probably 3 or 4 that come to mind. They are classic, traditional shapes and finishes. They are what we are comfortable seeing.

Except that Peterson can't just make the same shapes, sizes, and finishes forever. Then you have people crying out they are stuck in a rut and not doing anything different.

But when Peterson does try something different, like for example the st. Patrick's day pipe with the green stem, or different finishes, people cry out that its not what Peterson is, it is too different.

So on one hand there is a need to change and stay relevant, but on the other to adapt and grow. They seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

What's your take? How can a traditional maker with a storied past both honour that past and innovate and grow?

 

[TheIronMonkey]

In some ways, this isn't that different than a band that is known for a particular sound and wants to do something other than the greatest hits people are used to, or a movie franchise that breaks formula and upsets fans. In your particular example, I just wonder if the green stem chosen this year was met with resistance because it's quite honestly a bright, ugly green (to my mind and eyes in any case). If it were, perhaps, more understated and darker, like a forest or racing green, they might've been better received. I'm not that keen on some of the bright Savinelli stems, but, they're kind of fun and I kinda get it. But, I think Peterson is in a tough place given the history and classic shapes that people have come to know and love. Maybe a separate experimental line needs to be created that deviates from traditional shapes is warranted? GBD had their weird artisan pipes and those are much sought after. It can be done.

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

Growth is essential in business. Peterson’s is doing what all businesses do…sell product while remaining relevant to old and new pipers. For those that are “purists” you can still get those classics. For those that want new & interesting offerings, they have those too.

l also think that it is important for folks to express their opinions on anything pertaining to our thing. So, when a guy does that…it’s a good thing. And, when the replies and disagreements come…that’s good too. It’s all good! ?️

 

[Streeper541]

You are not wrong Mike. In fact, many iconic brands face the same dilemma as Peterson does. Take Harley-Davidson for instance. HD is trying to modernize, comply with government regulations, stay true to their roots, and appease longtime customers while attracting new ones. It's a very tough balancing act. From their sales numbers over the past few years one can see they are struggling through the process.

Now in returning our attention to pipes; Nevermind the fact that pipe tobacco contributes to a very small percentage of overall tobacco consumption, but couple that and the above with the decline of smoking in general... well, you're bound to run into some issues. I personally happen to think that Peterson, and by extension, Laudisi & SmokingPipes.com, are doing the best they can. Especially in a very niche market.

That's just my .02, YMMV

 

[sablebrush52]

I'm going to use Peterson as my example because to me they encapsulate perfectly what I'm trying to say.

It must be incredibly hard for a classic brand or make (like Peterson) to come up with new ideas and stay fresh. For example, when most of us think of a Peterson shape, there is probably 3 or 4 that come to mind. They are classic, traditional shapes and finishes. They are what we are comfortable seeing.

Except that Peterson can't just make the same shapes, sizes, and finishes forever. Then you have people crying out they are stuck in a rut and not doing anything different.

But when Peterson does try something different, like for example the st. Patrick's day pipe with the green stem, or different finishes, people cry out that its not what Peterson is, it is too different.

So on one hand there is a need to change and stay relevant, but on the other to adapt and grow. They seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

What's your take? How can a traditional maker with a storied past both honour that past and innovate and grow?

When people choose to buy a classic name they're generally not looking for novelty but rather a connection to a broader tradition, a standard, and an expectation of quality.

The problem for Peterson was that it's last management flushed quality control down the toilet. To be gentle about it, quality of Peterson pipes became rather "variable". Attempting to put a band aid on wounds caused by a grenade by offering up gimmicks wasn't going to cut it.

The history of the classic names is one of both tradition and innovation. Much of that innovation failed, like Dunhill's Vernon mount, some of it succeeded, like Barling's design for a thin bite zone. But what underlies all of this is a search to make a better quality product that can be sold at popular prices on a relatively large scale, especially compared to the one off production model of artisan pipe making.

Styles come and go. No manufacturer is producing all of their catalog shapes, and there is a deep bench of period design that would delight collectors interested in something different.

Sometimes innovation is renovation. The recent release of the Peterson 4AB is a good example of that, and a good example of a company hedging its risk by under producing the re-release. Hopefully they will demonstrate more faith in future.

 

[Casual]

This is what the concept of “brand” was invented for. You don’t buy ”procter and gamble” soap. You buy Gain or Dawn or Mr. Clean.

if Laudisi‘s Ireland pipe factory has extra capacity, maybe they should make a new brand?

I hate marketing in all its forms. It’s all just limbic manipulation. But there are techniques of manipulation to control public perception that these small companies aren’t using that the big boys use every day.

 

[Infantry23]

When people choose to buy a classic name they're generally not looking for novelty but rather a connection to a broader tradition, a standard, and an expectation of quality.

The problem for Peterson was that it's last management flushed quality control down the toilet. To be gentle about it, quality of Peterson pipes became rather "variable". Attempting to put a band aid on wounds caused by a grenade by offering up gimmicks wasn't going to cut it.

The history of the classic names is one of both tradition and innovation. Much of that innovation failed, like Dunhill's Vernon mount, some of it succeeded, like Barling's design for a thin bite zone. But what underlies all of this is a search to make a better quality product that can be sold at popular prices on a relatively large scale, especially compared to the one off production model of artisan pipe making.

Styles come and go. No manufacturer is producing all of their catalog shapes, and there is a deep bench of period design that would delight collectors interested in something different.

Sometimes innovation is renovation. The recent release of the Peterson 4AB is a good example of that, and a good example of a company hedging its risk by under producing the re-release. Hopefully they will demonstrate more faith in future.

I couldn't agree more. I really think that for me the allure to classic brands, pipes or otherwise, is a draw to tradition. Maybe a sense of harkening to a time where quality and tradition mattered.

 

[Streeper541]

When people choose to buy a classic name they're generally not looking for novelty but rather a connection to a broader tradition, a standard, and an expectation of quality.

However a holiday pipe, which I'm sure inspired this post, is indeed a novelty. A POTY is a different thing entirely, and expected to be of higher quality.

Peterson is in the unfortunate predicament that this particular holiday pipe (which has already generated a few threads on this forum) collides with their national heritage. I believe, because of that, people expect something more. Again, just my .02, YMMV

 

[STP]

All classic brands have to deal with the same dilemma. I thinks Peterson has done a good job, but perhaps Savinelli has done better while maintaining quality.

 

[mikethompson]

You are not wrong Mike.

Tell that to my wife

I think Peterson is in a tough place given the history and classic shapes that people have come to know and love.

HD is trying to modernize, comply with government regulations, stay true to their roots, and appease longtime customers while attracting new ones. It's a very tough balancing act

That balancing act is what I'm getting at. Maybe brands can't balance and have to on one side of the fence or the other?

 

[mikethompson]

However a holiday pipe, which I'm sure inspired this post, is indeed a novelty. A POTY is a different thing entirely, and expected to be of higher quality.

I would argue a Pipe Of The Year is a novelty as well.

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

I'm going to use Peterson as my example because to me they encapsulate perfectly what I'm trying to say.

It must be incredibly hard for a classic brand or make (like Peterson) to come up with new ideas and stay fresh. For example, when most of us think of a Peterson shape, there is probably 3 or 4 that come to mind. They are classic, traditional shapes and finishes. They are what we are comfortable seeing.

Except that Peterson can't just make the same shapes, sizes, and finishes forever. Then you have people crying out they are stuck in a rut and not doing anything different.

But when Peterson does try something different, like for example the st. Patrick's day pipe with the green stem, or different finishes, people cry out that its not what Peterson is, it is too different.

So on one hand there is a need to change and stay relevant, but on the other to adapt and grow. They seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

What's your take? How can a traditional maker with a storied past both honour that past and innovate and grow?

I guess they could have a different line? One traditional and one modern or arty under a different name but part of the same company?

 

[mikethompson]

One company that may walk that line with success is Vauen. They've been in business for 150 years and offer pipes of all different styles and shapes without being pigeon-holed as either too traditional or two modern.

 

[Mtlpiper]

The Peterson brand has value in its known quantities (history, quality, shapes etc.) There is room for new products, and they do seem to be exploioting that (special editions etc.) But it could be risky of them to stray "off-brand" too far.

I also dislike the whole marketing schlep... but it's tied to our feeble human brain functions, and we aren't going to change that anytime soon.

Were they (or any other classic brand) to want to try something "different", they would simply create a sub-brand or endorsement.

But in the current climate I suspect that there are many artisanal makers, the market is fairly full (and briar is a finite resource).

The market (tobacco in general actually) also seems to be a fairly volatile one as it is at the whim of legislation. Just take a look at the industry 20 years ago and today.

So until the benefit outweighs the risks I don't think we'll see it happen.

 

[Morrison Jeremiah]

The lone artisan doesn't need to restrict himself with any of the problems that Mike has mentioned.
IMO that's the direction I see the market heading in.

Speaking for myself, now I've got all the standard pipes I want, I shall only buy artisan made pipes in future.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

If I had two Peterson's, I'd have the dilemma of which to smoke. I better stay with one, and a pretty one at that...LOL!

I've not been swayed by the special editions, but I suspect some buy whatever they produce. That's a good reliable market I suspect.

 

[cigrmaster]

I have not collected brands in probably 20 years or so and those were Castello's that I was stealing on the gray market.

I would never have paid the going rate for Castellos back then. I also began collecting Formers, Reiner Barbi's , high grade hand made Winslow's. Grades E-B., Back then acrylic didn't bother my teeth.

Once I smoked my first Rad Davis and clenched his stem, it was all over for me. I bought new and used Rad's and other American artisan pipes who knew how to cut a custom stem. I sold off my last Former which was my favorite sometime in 2013. I also sold off my last Winslow while it was a great smoker, it weighed over 100 grams and had an acrylic stem, that was sold off around the same time as my Former. My Ebonite Rad blew away every other stem in my collection. I also noticed almost all of my other American artisan pipes had similar great stems. The purge continued till I only had one acrylic stem which was my first pipe which I will never get rid of even though it has an acrylic stem.

Now I am also doing a purge and this time I am purging any pipe that is not a perfect smoker. I am at the stage in my life where only my favorite pipes will stay in my collection. I moved out around 60 something pipes that were all very good smokers, but not perfect.

I even moved out some Rad's that were very good smokers but I knew I could do better with the money from my purge.

I can't buy any new tobacco as almost all of mine is 2012-2013 and older and I am not paying any premium prices except for one blend and I am not saying what that blend is, sorry guys.

 

[mso489]

It's like Bob Dylan going electric at the Newport Folk Festival. If the changed product has some substance, and the brand is strong enough, people will get aboard, or new people will get aboard, and there is a way into the future. I don't find the Peterson bright green stems alluring, but I just ordered a Sav with a bright yellow/amber stem, so maybe bright green is just the wrong color for me.

 

[warren]

How can a traditional maker with a storied past both honour that past and innovate

Many pipe smokers, I'd suggest well over half, are fans of the tried and proven shapes. Judging from the lack of enthusiasm for anything innovative by many members, Peterson will be putting out "tried and true" shapes for generations to come. But, that has everything to do with money and the new owners. Messing with a large, satisfied, customer base can be death for a brand.

 

[Streeper541]

I would argue a Pipe Of The Year is a novelty as well.

Fair enough.