Terroir, Tobacco Species, and Curing Methods

[chilllucky]

I'm a curious guy. I love knowing how things are done and consider it real fun to beat my head against walls of various densities trying to figure out if and how I can do it myself. To that end; I would like to grow, cure, and age some tobacco next year just to see what I can come up with.
Things I have working in favor of this effort are: Nine acres of land in southwest Wisconsin featuring four different soil types. Also, I rent space in a 6,000SF woodshop in Chicago with a big, empty parking lot. To my mind, these resources "solve" the problems of where to grow and cure the tobacco respectively.
What I do not have that would make this easier is a particularly sensitive or sophisticated sense of taste (I am definitely NOT the guy who can taste an ingredient and tell you what it'll do to the soup in a few hours) or any blend of tobacco that is such a favorite that I would want to imitate it.
Which leaves me a little rudderless when it comes to picking a specie of tobacco to plant and a process to attempt to cure it with. So I thought I would ask if there is anyone here with some experience with/knowledge of tobacco varieties or a resource for said knowledge, as I think what I plant would give me at least some direction on how to cure it.
Left to my own devices, I would let the land make as many of the decisions as it could. Use the soil type to direct the plant selection and maybe use some other resource from the property determine the curing (Like, there are a bunch of trees that need to come down, maybe one of them would be good to make flavorful smoke out of. Driftless latakia, anyone?)
Any help or direction would be much appreciated.
-Lucky

 

[bnichols23]

Cosmic, you're on.

 

[madox07]

Now that's a difficult thing to do ... I guess some technical advice is welcome from the professionals (which I am not), but also a bit of trial and error would be necessary, unless you have the resources to have lab sample tests on that terroir in as far as minerals and all the goodies that go well with one tobacco or another.

 

[jitterbugdude]

What do you like to smoke? (grow what you like) The "terroir" notion is pretty much BS. It's just one of the many marketing gimmicks that the pipe tobacco houses have come up with to convince people that "their special tobacco" really is special. You might/might not notice a slight difference between tobacco grown in Alabama as compared to Turkey or Kansas. Cultural practices dictate taste differences more than location.
If as you say, your tastes are not that sophisticated I'd recommend growing some Turkish. There is a very noticeable difference between some of the varieties such as Duzce, Tekekoy, Prilep and Yenidje. The only downside to growing Turkish is their small yield per plant. Burleys, on the other hand pretty much all taste the same to me. They do give big yields though and are easy to grow (just like Turkish). Virginias would require you to sun cure your leaf or flue cure if you want to retain the sugars.
All things considered I'd suggest: Grow small your first year so you get a feel for what you are doing. Absolutely join a tobacco growing forum such as FairTradeTobacco forum. Read up on what bugs you might have to battle, nutrient/water requirements, how to tell when your plants are ready to harvest, how to cure etc.
Tobacco is actually very easy to grow and process but like most new endeavors it can seem a little daunting when you first start out. Good luck

 

[chilllucky]

Although it's largely lost on me, I take people at their word when they say they can taste differences between Arcadian and St. James Parish perique. Which I believe is the same plant and process, just different soils (correct me if I'm wrong). Or Cyprian vs. Syrian Latakia, which I think (and again, please correct me here) is the same plant, but there are differences in what smoke it gets cured over.
According to the USGS, I have four different soil types. All forms of Loam. It's unlikely to produce anything as specific as the soil down in Louisiana, but if there was a better variety of tobacco to start with, I could use the help eliminating some possibilities.
I will keep researching varieties. I appreciate both the advice to start small and the link to a grower's forum.

 

[oldtoby]

My advice would be to find a local tobacco farmer in your vicinity and just ask a few basic questions. That could save you a lot of trial and error.
Your local feed and seed store may be of help, also.

 

[madox07]

jitterbugdude I disagree .. according to your logic a Cuban cigar is tasting just the same as a Dominican cigar, for example, which we know not to be true. If we are to quote the case of the legendary Arturo Fuente Cigar Co, we know that in the post embargo years Carlos Fuente tried growing tobacco in the Dominican Republic using seeds smuggled out of Cuba, and the result was nothing close to what the Fuente cigar used to be in the pre embargo year when they imported the leaf. The reason? Cuba has a volcanic terroir, while the Dominican Republic does not. I do not pretend to be an expert in agriculture and tobacco cultivation, but it makes pretty good sense that an organic plant's growth is quite influenced, among other things, by the various composition of the soil from which it takes all its nutrition.

 

[chilllucky]

OldToby - That is a great idea! I jumped right on it and just spent my lunch hour on the phone with the local university and USDA extension offices. Turns out, there's a tobacco growing area one county east of me who will be hosting their annual Tobacco Heritage Days this very weekend!
I'm gonna go see a tobacco judging contest and meet some local farmers!
-Lucky

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Look, first things first, when you ask for advice from someone that has been growing for years and years, like jitterbug, don’t start crapping on what he has to say.

There are about a thousand things between planting a seed and smoking it that can make a difference in flavor. So, drop the location bullshit. If you disagree, then maybe keep it to yourself and try to learn something. There is a lot of bullshit in smoker’s heads that just doesn’t pan out when you start learning a little something about tobacco.
You want to know what to plant and some help? Jitterbug would be my first go to guy... he was my first go to guy. Drop your preconceived notions. Become a blank slate, and take notes when an successful tobacco grower tells you something. Jitter has proven himself to many of us, time and time again, plus his years of helping growers.
So... (off soapbox).
What would you like to grow, or what would you like to smoke?

 

[chilllucky]

I just re-read this thread and don't see where I'm crapping on what jitterbugdude had to say. I made a counterpoint to one of the things he had to say (because it's a conversation, not a lecture) and thanked him for the other things he said. All of which is advice I intend to follow. Forgive me if I wasn't effusive enough in my reply.
Do you not agree that location is among the thousand things between planting and smoking that makes a difference in flavor? I wasn't suggesting that it was more important than water and sunshine and topping and harvesting at the right time, etc. I was asking if it had an influence. It's information I'd like to start this journey with, as the soil on my property would be one of the more difficult variables to change. When that supposition was disputed, I asked a follow up question. It's a mechanism to eliminate ignorance.
So... (stops swinging a hatchet at your soapbox)
A fantasy would be that I could grow and/or cure a uniquely flavored tobacco to offer to blenders in the club. A much more realistic starting place would be: I'd like to grow an amount of tobacco over a few years where I can screw around with various curing methods to gain a better appreciation for all the work that goes into a bowl. It would be nice if I could smoke it without making myself sick.
-Lucky

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The Turkish strains are definitely unique flavors. I have not had the luck that Jitter has had with them. But, in retrospect, I may have used too rich of a soil mixture.

Burleys can range on flavor and strength. It really depends on what you want. I am growing Semois this year, and I was shocked that they are so small, like no more than three feet tall.

These are the easiest, as you don’t have to flue cure or sweat them.
I am enjoying growing Virginias. But, they require various “cooking” techniques, but that is the part that I enjoy. You can get lemony yellow leaf to a deep brown Virginia, depending on how you treat them. But, if this is the route you want to go, plan ahead. I am building my curing barn now, which is about the size of a traditional smokehouse. I got hit with kidney issues this summer, and it put me behind on being ready to process the leaves that are ripening now.
I would suggest growing a small crop, maybe 20 or so plants to start with. This will give you an idea of the work that goes into it. Topping and suckering can be a time suck. Plus, getting the sap all over you can make you sick in the heat. Yesterday, I was wearing gloves and started suckering the Semois as I was walking by, wiping the sweat off of my face I was getting the sap on me, and I had to go lay down for a while. My heart felt like it was about to explode. Plus, a large crop is going to mean a huge barn to cure. And, monitoring a large barn without having been trained might prove tedious in the beginning. Temperatures and humidity can vary from corners to the center.
It would be easier if we knew what variety you wanted or flavors you were looking for. My very first crop was all over the page, with Virginia, dark Virginia, rustica, and a couple of burleys. But, it gave me an idea of what plants I would enjoy planting.
Keep in mind that it will take a while for your crop to taste like what you expect. My first couple of crops I had written off as humdrum, until I let them set in an old cooler in my barn for a few years. My wife dragged them out and asked me if I wanted to keep them. I was about to tell her to toss them till I tried some, and was like WOW! So be patient.
As to location affecting flavors... just focus on getting a crop first. Then you can revisit all of these ideas. It’s not going to make a difference, unless you are planning on trying to copy a Cuban cigar anyways. But, tobacco is grown from Artic to Antarctic worldwide. You can grow something amazing anywhere. Besides, if you are looking to make something unique, what difference does it make. But, ai think you’ll find that most things that the typical consumer has heard about tobacco is a fairytale.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My only complaint about the homegrowers community is that there are tons of information on cigarette, dipping, and cigars, but not really much on pipe tobacco. This is mostly because pipesmokers make up the smallest section of tobacco users. We are like one in every ten thousand, so there’s just not much out there, especially when it comes to flue curing. I think that homegrowers see many of these techniques as “commercial,” so there’s just not much information available. It’s just easier to grow a Burley and dry it.

And, what is out there about pipe tobacco is mostly blending and making your own aromatic. Ugg!

 

[crashthegrey]

Every time I consider planting some tobacco I read what the guys who know what they are doing have to say and realize that I am just not the right person to grow and cure tobacco. Maybe when I am closer to retiring.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

It’s not hard at all. It’s also not time consuming if you keep your crop small. My thoughts of growing a whole acre at the first of the year were just pipedreams. THAT would have been a nightmare to tend by myself.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I really would like to see more guys start growing at home. I hope that I am not discouraging this, but I do want to keep it real. If someone was to plant several acres, your most likely going to get a knock on the door by your local Ag Agent. Plus, the work. But a good garden plot sized crop can keep someone easily in their own homegrown without having to buy it, if you don’t want to. I will always enjoy smoking commercial blends. But, growing your own really shows you how easy it is and adds to the enjoyment.

 

[chilllucky]

I was only ever considering at most a couple dozen plants in the first year or maybe even ever. I don't think I've smoked much more than a pound or two of tobacco in a year and that would potentially yield a decade's worth.
I read through some of your threads about home growing and really value what you've had to say about it. Your experience is part of why I'm asking these questions now, 6 months ahead of seed buying. When I first had the idea to grow and cure my own it went like: Grow 3-4 plants each of 4 varieties. Do something different to cure 3-4 batches of each type (temp/humidity control, material burned in fire curing, etc etc.). See if you can tell a difference in the product. It went fractally crazy with possibility pretty quick.
In the absence of an ingredient or blend to imitate, I was hoping that soil type or some other condition would drive the selection. I guess I'll just have to keep researching plants and curing methods and smoking different tobacco blends and hope something strikes me as being the most worthwhile thing to attempt. Woe is me.
I'll find out Saturday what the commercial growers one county over are growing. The Ag agent said it was cigar filler/binder. See if I can talk to those guys without putting my foot in my mouth.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My novice understanding of Virginias, is that they do better in crappy soil. The strain was developed in coastal Virginia where the soil was very sandy and is why it developed the way it did. But, I am not saying that it does better in that soil. It just seems to have that light fragrant quality when grown in it. But, you would still want to fertilize it.

My soil is best for cotton, clay based, and I really like what I get.

 

[artvandelay007]

For me, this just seems like one of those ideas that sounds great but when the practicalities are considered, it’s just not worth it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I guess if one doesn’t already garden or farm, it wouldn’t be practicle at all. But, I’ve always had a garden. Actually, I grew up thinking everyone gardened. It’s just what everyone did. At least your tomatoes and peppers. So, it was a little more practicle for some, maybe not so for others.

 

[yaddy306]

The reason? Cuba has a volcanic terroir, while the Dominican Republic does not.

Madox, where did you hear that?

I'm no pedologist, but Cuba's soil is not volcanic.