Suspicious of Retrohaling...

[generalzod]

This topic comes up often among cigar smokers, and not surprisingly I'm seeing it popping up in the pipe world. What I find odd is, every discussion about retrohaling's benefits begins by talking about how we "taste with our nose" and how "you can't taste anything if you hold your nose closed". Both of these arguments seem fairly suspicious. To follow that analogy forward, we don't push food, fine wines or aged spirits through our nose, yet no one questions whether or not we're testing them fully. Further, unlike food, wine and spirits, the nose is constantly surrounded by the smoke; both externally and internally, in a way nothing else is. So I'm curious as to why tasting tobacco fully is dependent on a deliberate action that no other substance is dependent on. I feel like there must be a part of this process I'm simply not appreciating. Thanks.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

we don't push food, fine wines or aged spirits through our nose, yet no one questions whether or not we're testing them fully.

You don't have to push a sardine through your nose to smell it.
But, I don't see the big deal. If you don't want to retrohale, then don't. I don't think anyone is going to twist your arm. We have many members who don't think retrohaling is for them for various reasons. Do what makes you happy.

 

[didimauw]

Yeah I only do it once and a while, usually on accident. But it's fun while it lasts.

 

[cshubhra]

I get a lot of flavors on Retrohale for pipes, cigars and (believe it or not) even cigarettes

 

[Chasing Embers]

To follow that analogy forward, we don't push food, fine wines or aged spirits through our nose, yet no one questions whether or not we're testing them fully.

No, but the aroma is in front of you openly as you are eating. You are smelling what you eat as you are eating it. Ever eat with a sinus infection or nasal congestion? Flavors just seem off. Without retrohaling, I wouldn't taste anything I smoke. I do it with every puff.

 

[Chasing Embers]

the nose is constantly surrounded by the smoke;

?You rarely see me produce any smoke. If anything a wisp every now and then.

 

[mau1]

I regularly retrohale because it imparts much more flavour IMO. Slow sips and slow retrohale. I tried retrohaling a cigar on the weekend. Very harsh and won't be doing that again. The pipe won hands down over the cigar.

 

[generalzod]

No, but the aroma is in front of you openly as you are eating. You are smelling what you eat as you are eating it.

Thank you for the reply. And on this point, I completely agree. But isn't the smell of the pipe also right in front of you... especially if you clench? And to that end, the pipe's aroma is even more present, as you don't hold a fork full of food under your nose indefinitely.

Ever eat with a sinus infection or nasal congestion? Flavors just seem off. Without retrohaling, I wouldn't taste anything I smoke. I do it with every puff.

That feels like something of a false analogy. Shouldn't we equate eating with a cold to smoking a pipe with a cold? It sounds like we agree that we taste with our nose. I'm just trying to understand why we additionally need to push tobacco smoke through our nose to taste it fully, when that's not required to taste anything else we taste? Thanks again.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I'm just trying to understand why we additionally need to push tobacco smoke through our nose to taste it fully, when that's not required to taste anything else we taste?

It's not the combusted tobacco you're tasting, it's the vapors from the heated tobacco surrounding the ember. That's why when some are smoking too hot they taste nothing or complain of a cigarette taste. They're getting nothing but a burnt taste from overly charring the tobacco without letting it gradually heat. You're not going to smell the warm tobacco rising from the chamber, only the smoke.

 

[tg51]

It might also be useful to think about how you eat. Assuming that you don't chew with your mouth wide open, you will naturally breath in and out of your nose while you chew. Your tongue detects the five basic flavors, those being sweet, sour, salty, bitter and savory. All of the subtle nuances from in food, drink and tobacco for example comes from the the greater amount of chemical sensors in your nose. Due to the greater amount of chemical sensory nerves it allows for a greater categories of specialization among the population.


The Science of Mouth and Nose - How We Taste and Smell - https://www.dentalone-va.com/the-science-of-mouth-and-nose-how-we-taste-and-smell/ -- An interesting read if you want to draw your own conclusions.

 

[sablebrush52]

Our ability to process flavors is distributed through several senses. It's just basic physiology.

Flavor perception is an aggregation of auditory, taste, haptic, and smell sensory information.[1] Retronasal smell plays the biggest role in the sensation of flavor. During the process of mastication, the tongue manipulates food to release odorants. These odorants enter the nasal cavity during exhalation.[49] The olfaction of food has the sensation of being in the mouth because of co-activation of the motor cortex and olfactory epithelium during mastication.[1]

Olfaction, taste, and trigeminal receptors (also called chemesthesis) together contribute to flavor. The human tongue can distinguish only among five distinct qualities of taste, while the nose can distinguish among hundreds of substances, even in minute quantities. It is during exhalation that the olfaction contribution to flavor occurs, in contrast to that of proper smell, which occurs during the inhalation phase of breathing.[49] The olfactory system is the only human sense that bypasses the thalamus and connects directly to the forebrain.

Comparatively speaking, what tastes your tongue can distinguish is quite limited to what your schnoz can pick up.

 

[tg51]

When it comes to it I'll reiterate what many of the experienced guys here have said in past threads. Smoke how you want, not how others say you should. It's all about what you find most enjoyable. Otherwise how can you justify spending more money on pipes and tobacco?

 

[generalzod]

It's not the combusted tobacco you're tasting, it's the vapors from the heated tobacco surrounding the ember... You're not going to smell the warm tobacco rising from the chamber, only the smoke.

That's an interesting way to think about it. Two follow-up questions

1. Wouldn't you get all of those aromas through the internal connection between mouth and nose, without the deliberate action of retrohaling?
2. Wouldn't you also get those aromas on the exhale?

Thanks again.

Your tongue detects the five basic flavors, those being sweet, sour, salty, bitter and savory. All of the subtle nuances from in food, drink and tobacco for example comes from the the greater amount of chemical sensors in your nose. Due to the greater amount of chemical sensory nerves it allows for a greater categories of specialization among the population.

On this point, I'm clear. I fully appreciate that I'm tasting the nuances of my food with my nose. However, that doesn't fully explain why I can taste everything else on the planet, using both my mouth and my nose, without additionally retrohaling it. It strikes me as odd that the only substance on the planet that needs to be physically pushed through the nose, in order to engage the nose, is tobacco smoke. It's this last point I'm hung up on. Cheers.

 

[generalzod]

When it comes to it I'll reiterate what many of the experienced guys here have said in past threads. Smoke how you want, not how others say you should. It's all about what you find most enjoyable.

100%. I'm not looking to do what others have done or follow anything blindly. I'm 50 years old and quite confident in who I am. I'm merely curious, so I'm asking the question.

Cheers.

 

[didimauw]

?You rarely see me produce any smoke. If anything a wisp every now and then.

So then you aren't a smoker at all, more like just a Piper....

You could use that when asked, "do you smoke?"

"Nope"

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I retrohale mostly for the nicotine. I seem to also absorb more nicotine through my sinuses than just absorbing through the small blood vessels of my mouth. It beats inhaling, with the benefits of added flavor. But, I usually just do this with Virginias and like blends. For the heavy burleys, I usually don't have to do this, because the taste is stronger and the nicotine is more easily absorbed in my mouth.
So, if nicotine isn't an issue, nor taste, then just do what you prefer.

 

[Ctbill]

I suggest that even if you don’t purposely retrohale, and just exhale the smoke, and then breathe normally through your nose, you would engage the olfactory senses - as you said, just because they are close/connected through the back of your throat. The retrohale just turbocharges that olfactory sense.
I don’t retrohale my Scotch, but after a sip and swallow, I ”retrohale” the next breath to engage the olfactory nerves to bring out the flavors more fully.
All that said, I only retrohale maybe 2-3 times per bowl.

 

[sablebrush52]

It strikes me as odd that the only substance on the planet that needs to be physically pushed through the nose, in order to engage the nose, is tobacco smoke. It's this last point I'm hung up on.

It's not the only substance. Every time you eat something its flavor components are broken down and drift up through your schnoz, where more flavor components are sensed. Part of everything you experience as flavor goes through your nose whether you are aware of it or not.

There's nothing unique to tobacco smoking. You're getting some of this anyway when you smell the smoke when smoking indoors, as you're sitting in a cloud of smoke inhaling and smelling it, whether you are aware of it or not. Those of us who only smoke outdoors can get the same flavor experience through snorking because we're not sitting in an enclosed smoke filled room.

 

[jeff540]

I never really paid attention, I just smoke the damned thing. Don't consciously inhale, but every now and again I get a partial lungful.

We're not eating tofu and bean sprouts here; we're willingly introducing incomplete combustion products into our bodies for the pure enjoyment of it. Life is short - enjoy it to the best of your ability and be thankful.

 

[Ctbill]

One more reply:
You said “It strikes me as odd that the only substance on the planet that needs to be physically pushedthrough the nose, in order to engage the nose, is tobacco smoke.”

I can’t think of another substance that CAN be(comfortably). We can, so sometimes we do. No NEED to though...and you’ll still engage the nose (olfactory senses).

Enjoy however you choose!?