Supporting Local Shops

[WhiteCrown]

I visited a B&M yesterday in Washington State. It was a pleasant experience and the owner was very personable, and I really wanted to spend some money there, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay 3x for something that I could have at my doorstep in a week. However I want to support these shops, so I grabbed a tin and a couple ounces of bulk anyway. I wish I could bring myself to spend more but it would feel like more of a donation than a purchase.

These owners (in multiple states) always say "its the taxes"! Just a year or so ago I was living in Maryland, the tobacco tax was 30% (iirc) and most tobacco shops wanted $17 a pouch for OTCs. However there was one lonely cigar shop that sold the full line of PS bulk for $3.99/oz, and that same $17 would get you a tin of Nightcap... but with the same tax rate, hmm. I know a 30% tax on a $5-6 pouch of tobacco is not an extra $11-12. Last weekend I stopped by a Cigar shop in Spokane, WA (same tax rate) and paid about half of what this one was charging for bulks, but he still said it was "those high state taxes".

I probably would have spent 3-4 times as much money at that shop if the prices matched the Spokane shop, and he would have made more profit from my purchase by not charging an extra 200% in "taxes". It just doesn't make sense to me, so I'm left feeling like bunch of tobacco shop owners are trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I like to think not everyone is crooked, so is there something I'm missing? Or, did I just fall for it and unwittingly make a "donation" because pity has been most tobacconist's business model all along?

 

[fireground_piper]

Well you guys seemingly have a 95% excise tax rate on pipe tobacco if I was looking at the right document. So after federal, state sales tax and state excise tax you certainly will be paying at least double compared to an online purchase where that’s not collected.

Unless I’m mistaken, and unless a vendor is putting themselves at risk, you technically can’t have a vendor get it to your doorstep because of your state online purchase ban, no?

As for comparing similar in state establishments, who knows. Never know what one establishments responsibilities are compared to another in another city. Overheads could be significantly different, etc.

 

[WhiteCrown]

You are right about shipping to WA. I'm not a WA resident so I can still order online to my house, I just travel a lot. I was suspecting some local WA shops are taking advantage of the shipping constraint. I guess maybe it works for them because the locals have no other choice.

95% is high, but that makes sense for Lane/Sutliff bulks that cost around $3 an oz to be taxed up to $6 in Spokane, and that's still reasonable I think. Again though, other shops are charging triple instead of double, but maybe you are right and its just the cities taxing as well.

There's something about being able to smell the bulks and look at the stacks of tins though, I'm happy to pay a little extra for that, but its hard to buy 3 tins of University flake for $90 when I can order 10 of them online for $100 and get free shipping.

Yesterday I only bought Samuel Gawith blends because they can be hard to find online, so I consider that to be worth it paying more. Also, shops often have a bit more age on some of their tins, which is also worth extra IMO.

 

[AJL67]

I visited a B&M yesterday in Washington State. It was a pleasant experience and the owner was very personable, and I really wanted to spend some money there, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay 3x for something that I could have at my doorstep in a week. However I want to support these shops, so I grabbed a tin and a couple ounces of bulk anyway. I wish I could bring myself to spend more but it would feel like more of a donation than a purchase.

These owners (in multiple states) always say "its the taxes"! Just a year or so ago I was living in Maryland, the tobacco tax was 30% (iirc) and most tobacco shops wanted $17 a pouch for OTCs. However there was one lonely cigar shop that sold the full line of PS bulk for $3.99/oz, and that same $17 would get you a tin of Nightcap... but with the same tax rate, hmm. I know a 30% tax on a $5-6 pouch of tobacco is not an extra $11-12. Last weekend I stopped by a Cigar shop in Spokane, WA (same tax rate) and paid about half of what this one was charging for bulks, but he still said it was "those high state taxes".

I probably would have spent 3-4 times as much money at that shop if the prices matched the Spokane shop, and he would have made more profit from my purchase by not charging an extra 200% in "taxes". It just doesn't make sense to me, so I'm left feeling like bunch of tobacco shop owners are trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I like to think not everyone is crooked, so is there something I'm missing? Or, did I just fall for it and unwittingly make a "donation" because pity has been most tobacconist's business model all along?

That's how it goes, to support them you pay what they charge, the local shop here, well the excise tax in FL is a killer, so I'll buy a cigar or two instead (that i will gift out because i don't like domestics) or I'll buy a Rossi or other cheaper pipe once in a blue moon, or a nice pipe travel case or something. i like to get some kind of value for the dollar so it's usually something other than pipe tobacco.

 

[warren]

The buyer always has the option to not make a purchase. All the costs of doing business are passed on to the customer. Taxes, rent/mortgage, utilities, the proprietor's kids college costs, the cost of his car, house, boat, shoes, and so forth are all on the backs of the customer. You can either buy or walk by. The choice is entirely yours. If you have sufficient funds, cost may not be that much of a concern. If you are always nearly broke, price is a concern.

A brick and motor store standing still, no mail out orders, no internet presence is living in the dark ages of retail. Brick and mortar owners have to be agile. This is especial true when the customer base is severely limited. This why there's a humidor stocked with cigars in many B&M's, cigarettes behind the register, domestic and luxury blends. A smoking area in such a store may be eating into the profits unless the proprietor requires users to make a purchase. "Free" coffee is probably covered in the retail prices charged.

Simply blaming taxes is an easy simplification the customer can always nod and agree with. It's never that simple.

 

[Non-Mentholated Black Man]

I like to think not everyone is crooked, so is there something I'm missing?

I do not see anything crooked about someone trying to make a profit in the luxury goods market.

 

[WhiteCrown]

I do not see anything crooked about someone trying to make a profit in the luxury goods market.

Yeah me neither.

 

[kcghost]

I am a firm believer in supporting local B&M's where possible. I know they are more expensive but when you want to smoke somewhere else than your house, they are great to go to!!

 

[WhiteCrown]

You have some good points, and for anything else I'd just take my wallet elsewhere, but I will probably visit this B&M again. It didn't have a smoking area or free coffee, but it was the kind of store with such a selection that I could forget about ordering online, as long as the cost was only twice as much.

I want these shops to stay in business, in fact I want more of them, as I'm sure you all do. Wouldn't most of you visit your B&Ms more often, or even exclusively, if they closed the gap with online pricing a little? I want to shop at these places instead of online, but I have my own kids' college, utilities, shoes, etc. to pay for, and I'm not going to buy less tobacco when I have such an easy option for a much lower price. I already paid off my house and cars, I didn't do that by habitually paying 3x for other things for no reason.

*And I sold my boat. If you own a pipe shop, sell your boat, you will be able to lower your prices from that alone... them things eat money. Get a canoe instead. It's better for pipe smoking in anyway

 

[AroEnglish]

It's not just the tobacco but it's also on pipes. The B&Ms sell pipes at the full MSRP but no one online is selling them for anywhere near hat. I guess it's because the volume is so low at B&Ms that they need to make more profit per item.

 

[BrightDarkEyes]

My smoking room is better than the two “B&M” shops in my town. I ordered bulk cleaners and a bunch of pipe supplies (no tobacco or pipes) from smokingpipes.com the other year and they emailed me about shipping and after that issue was cleared up they said “I hope your shop is doing well.”

 

[Egg Shen]

I hate shopping so I’m pretty happy with the ease of SP and TP. I like my local cigar place enough to go there once in a while and hang and smoke and be removed from all my own bs. However the owner has been killing the vibe by just having the news on all day. I don’t want to hear that fake drivel when I’m trying to relax. And he’s so glued to it he’s inattentive to his customers. He discontinued selling pipe stuff anyway.

 

[The Novice Piper]

I can feel your pain, OP. Unless I want to drive an hour, there's only one shop that offers pipe tobacco and a place to sit and smoke. They charge $30 apiece for tins of Peterson blends that I can find online for $10-17, and they have only five blends available.

It's a bummer because I'd love to sit and chat with folks there but I can't bring myself to pay that much for the privilege. I've been pondering on a way to help them nuture the pipe-smoking market in my area, in the hopes increased demand might translate to lower prices (and more options!). No solid ideas yet. An f-book group for attracting local smokers, maybe?

 

[Sig]

Im not sure about your state, but here in NYS, its the same deal.
SOMETIMES the reason for the price difference is how the tobacco s packaged, if its flavored and how its marketed.
Here in NYS the tobacco shops sell one pound bags of cigarette tobbaco labeled as pipe tobacco for a fraction of the price of a one pound bag labeled "cigarette" tobacco. They also charge more for packaged pipe tobacco than for bulk pipe tobacco. The taxes here are ridiculous.
"Unflavored" bulk pipe tobacco has a much lower tax rate than cigarette or packaged pipe tobacco here. Maybe its kinda the same there.

 

[lupy1234]

I am all for supporting B&Ms but it sucks when on TP, SP, WCC, Wilke, Boswell and a couple of others receive all the product that is in demand.

 

[lupy1234]

I went to Local B&M awhile ago and they received Old Boss prior to being released. $24 a tin, I did buy one but I knew it would be cheaper elsewhere, and it was.

 

[lupy1234]

Another purchase, went to Davidus in Annapolis and the had Esoterica and Germain tins on shelf for $40 a tin, while Boswell had some at $20 a tin. So, not going to shop at Davidus.

 

[jackattack]

I'm normally a big "shop local" person... but after doing some price comparison I'll never buy from the local b&m's again.

 

[AJL67]

Another purchase, went to Davidus in Annapolis and the had Esoterica and Germain tins on shelf for $40 a tin, while Boswell had some at $20 a tin. So, not going to shop at Davidus.

Price of doing business, still cheaper than you'll find it online and obv cheaper than someone flipping it, just depends on how much you want it. With the economy these days it's hard to fault shop keepers unless they are really screwing people over, even then it's their business they can do what they want, it's up to us to decide if we do business with them.

 

[AreBee]

I like to support local B&Ms too. My local cigar/pipe shop only sells bulk, and most tobaccos sell for $4-$6 an oz. I can live with that but he just doesn't have a lot of product. Maybe four different kinds at any one time. I bought tins a couple times at different shops and have had similar results to the OP. $30 for a $12 tin of Peterson Sunset Breeze and $23 for an $11 tin of Stanwell Melange. It's just too tough to swallow.