Straight Virginia Styles

[msromike]

Are there different styles of Straight Virginia tobaccos? If so how would you classify them? I noticed there are light colored, medium and dark colored. Is that good way to classify them?

 

[Scottmi]

Short answer: Yes. Mac Baren has a good series of short videos talking about this and other tobaccos. C&D has some as well.

 

[rmbittner]

Depending on where they’re grown and how they’re processed, there are many different “styles” of Virginia tobaccos. I’m not sure color alone is a great way to classify them—country of origin and curing methods might be better…or, at least, a little more accurate/objective.

 

[ThermionicScott]

I have seen at least three different, but seemingly-authoritative, definitions for where red Virginias come from. So be forewarned that this may be a frustrating pursuit.

 

[fireground_piper]

I classify them in 2 broad categories: Natural and flavored. Both categories only contain Virginia leaf but I do personally classify something like blockade runner as a straight Virginia even though it has rum added.

Origin, color and processing does not impact those 2 broad groups for me. Different blends just roll up into those 2 top categories.

I generally like middle of the road….not too bright and not too red but I have favorites in both categories of natural and flavored.

 

[msromike]

As a starting point, do you think Golden, Red, and Dark is a good way to start to broadly pigeon hole the types?

 

[shermnatman]

As a starting point, do you think Golden, Red, and Dark is a good way to start to broadly pigeon hole the types?

I first went down this Rabbit Hole, in trying to understand the difference between Flue Cured types: Bright Virginia, Lemon Virginia, Yellow Virginia, Golden Virginia, Orange Virginia, Red Virginia, ect, ect,; however; In my conversations with 2 different well-respected blenders, both told me to begin first by simply separating the "brights" from the "reds", as the 2 big divisions - with the "brights" being picked lower on the stalk, younger, higher in sugar and lower in nicotine than Red, cure at a higher heat for a lessor time; and, the "reds" being picked higher on the stalk, more mature, lessor in sugar and higher in nicotine than Bright, cured at a lower heat for a longer time... iirc all those details correctly.

After spending A LOT of time down that rabbit hole, I realized that the advice I was given to basically just leave it at Bright and Red, and not concern myself with the minutia of all the sub-classifications; and simply get onto to enjoying blending and smoking, turned out to be the right advise to me in the end.

YMMV

Oh, if you're really into the details, I understand the original Jamestown Virginia was Air-Cured; and not, purposefully flue-cured - which later became the standard - came about of a consequence of simply storing tabak out of necessity in the rafters of the house - not in a barn - were the heat from the hearth was assisting in the cure.

In other words, it came about as the result of fulfilling a different need; and not, as an innovative idea that someone had.

Of course, I don't know this as a "fact", having not been there. So in the end, it's just hearsay.

So, you can go down the Virginia rabbit hole; or, just lump everything as either Bright or Red, and not worry about it - as was suggested to me.

However, my personality forced me to continue down, down, down, the rabbit hole; but now, I am not sure of what use all that info is to me as far as my smoking is concerned. - Sherm Natman

 

[biodarwin]

As a starting point, do you think Golden, Red, and Dark is a good way to start to broadly pigeon hole the types?

Probably not because a lot of tobaccos use blends in different proportions. I classify VA as such:

1. Lighter and citrusy
   1. Capstan Gold
   2. CVP
   3. Peterson Flake
2. Darker and fruity
   1. Capstan Blue
   2. CBP
   3. HH Pure Virginia
3. Aromatics (More than the casual top notes, but not true aromatics)
   1. LTF
   2. Erinmore
   3. Royal Yacht
4. Dark, stoved, and sweet
   1. Astley's 44
   2. House Reserve Stoved and Un-stoved VIrginias (Last Springs release)

 

[rmbittner]

Are there different styles of Straight Virginia tobaccos?

Also, how are you defining straight? When I refer to something as a “straight Virginia,” I’m referring to Virginia-only tobacco blends that have no additional flavorings. But I can see from the other responses—some of which include aromatics--that that’s not a universal definition.

 

[msromike]

Also, how are you defining straight? When I refer to something as a “straight Virginia,” I’m referring to Virginia-only tobacco blends that have no additional flavorings. But I can see from the other responses—some of which include aromatics--that that’s not a universal definition.

Yes, that would be my definition as well. Virginia only, without flavor or other tobacco types.

I think I am going with the Bright, and Red definition given above. Seems the easiest for me to understand at this stage of the game.

I will sometimes buy 10 or so bulk whatevers, in this case it will be straight Virginias, and then smoke them head to head to find what I like. I had a problem in the past of not really comparing apples to apples, expecially with the Virginia blends. So I am circling back and retrying some of the ones that were close contenders.

But now I have 2 groups, brights and reds. Fun hobby, always learning more.

 

[kcghost]

Good choice as the other definitions will definitely dump you in a rabbit hole.

 

[biodarwin]

Yes, that would be my definition as well. Virginia only, without flavor or other tobacco types.

It's a tough thing to describe. There is nothing you will smoke that doesn't have "something" applied. Period.

 

[shermnatman]

Yes, that would be my definition as well. Virginia only, without flavor or other tobacco types.

I think I am going with the Bright, and Red definition given above. Seems the easiest for me to understand at this stage of the game.

I will sometimes buy 10 or so bulk whatevers, in this case it will be straight Virginias, and then smoke them head to head to find what I like. I had a problem in the past of not really comparing apples to apples, expecially with the Virginia blends. So I am circling back and retrying some of the ones that were close contenders.

But now I have 2 groups, brights and reds. Fun hobby, always learning more.

One other VERY INTERESTING THING which I picked-up from listening to Per Georg Jensen, Mac Baron's Mater Blender on YouTube is that if you listen very carefully, you will hear him refer to Bright Virginia as "filler tobacco" and Red Virginia as "flavor tobacco".

Understanding his thinking in this way, helped guide not only my selections of off-the-shelf Virginia offers; but moreover, in my own blending experiments in helping to guide with purpose my initial ratios of Brights to Reds.

I hope that little nugget is helpful you as well. - Sherm Natman

 

[jndyer]

This has been a very informative thread. One of the things that I love about this forum, and I suspect I am not alone, is the time people take to explain their thoughts and reasoning.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I think of Virginias as time of day or meals.

Breakfast blends : Sir John's Flake Virginia, Wessex Gold Virginia Flake, Hamborger Veermaster, Capstan Gold

Lunch blends: MB HH Pure Virginia, MB Virginia Flake, Newminster 400, Vauen No 14

Dinner blends: F&T CVP, GH Scottish Flake, SG BBF

Midnight snack blends: F&T Vintage, SG FVF, Astleys 44, Wessex Campaign Brigade DF

These aren't 100% hard and fast rules for me but you wouldn't find me deviating much from this order either.

 

[SBC]

Although I'm no expert on classification by place on the stalk or by kind or degree of curing, when it comes to final product I classify as:

Yellow
Red
Brown
Dark
African Air Cured

...or some combination of those categories.

Any of these may additionally be aromatic. (I have come to think of Straight VA as referring to leaf, not to the question of topping.)

So for instance, I'd classify OGS as Aro-Yellow, and Newminster 400 as Aro-Yellow-Brown.

And whereas Capstan Blue would be a Red, I'd classify Opening Night as a Yellow-Red and HH Pure VA as a Red-Brown.

I'm not sure whether there are any "straight" African Air Cured offerings. Usually it's a component in Lakelands.

 

[ThermionicScott]

I'll echo that most "straight Virginia" blends have some kind of subtle (or not) top flavors added. I can only think of a couple exceptions.

One of the best ways to acquaint yourself with the individual tobaccos would be to buy an ounce or so of "blending" tobaccos from C&D or Sutliff, like Bright Virginia ribbon, Red Virginia ribbon, Yellow ribbon, 507S Stoved Virginia (which I believe starts off as bright leaf), etc. These might still have some casings, but nothing wacky.

 

[shermnatman]

I'll echo that most "straight Virginia" blends have some kind of subtle (or not) top flavors added. I can only think of a couple exceptions.

C&D's Jeremy Reeve's states the same thing, saying that "nearly all" tobacco get sprayed - if even just a light shot of something sweet - during some part of it's trip through processing from harvest to tin.

Perhaps the logical exception would be raw leaf, which is then purposefully kept in it's unadulterated state (?).

The other piece of specific information we are left to speculate on is what would the "something sweet" be?

Again, perhaps the easy and logical assumption would be to consider a very light misting of sugar-water solution (?).

I would be inclined to discount Blackstrap Molasses as this "apply to most all" solution - which is used in certain tobacco processes - because although it's the least sweet of the types of molasses at-hand, it is still loaded with sugars, but is actually bitter in taste; whereas, the lighter amber colored molasses offer less flavor and more sweetness.

Once again, with limited information, we are left only to speculate - which is often a very sketchy proposition in it's self.

And now, we are spiraling down the Molasses Rabbit Hole LOL!!!! - Sherm Natman

 

[coming to_falling too]

C&D's Jeremy Reeve's states the same thing, saying that "nearly all" tobacco get sprayed - if even just a light shot of something sweet - during some part of it's trip through processing from harvest to tin.

Perhaps the logical exception would be raw leaf, which is then purposefully kept in it's unadulterated state (?).

The other piece of specific information we are left to speculate on is what would the "something sweet" be?

Again, perhaps the easy and logical assumption would be to consider a very light misting of sugar-water solution (?).

I would be inclined to discount Blackstrap Molasses as this "apply to most all" solution - which is used in certain tobacco processes - because although it's the least sweet of the types of molasses at-hand, it is still loaded with sugars, but is actually bitter in taste; whereas, the lighter amber colored molasses offer less flavor and more sweetness.

Once again, with limited information, we are left only to speculate - which is often a very sketchy proposition in it's self.

And now, we are spiraling down the Molasses Rabbit Hole LOL!!!! - Sherm Natman

This is off topic, but blackstrap is my favorite. We use it at work and I've been known to snag a bit from time to time. I like it on biscuits.

 

[rmbittner]

Perhaps the logical exception would be raw leaf, which is then purposefully kept in it's unadulterated state (?).

Based on the sources in my tobacco library, every leaf is sprayed with a humidifier, otherwise it would not be pliable enough to work with. (Some humidifying agents might also include sweeteners.) Leaf as shipped/stored is dry and unworkable.