Stonehaven Auctions

[mrenglish]

It is amazing what Stonehaven goes for. As a seller, you would do better to list the bags individually than to sell two at a time. A recent auction for two bags closed at around $220, individual bags will more than likely bring more than $110 each. There was a recent auction where a bag only sold for $88 bucks, the seller was probably not too happy about that. Still, at 18.75 an ounce, that is two nice cigars and an ounce will probably give more than a couple hours of smoking time.
My thoughts on why they have not raised their price is there may be contractual reasons on why they cannot? No sure, but even if they charge $75 a bag retail would be in the $150 range plus tobacco taxes from a B&M.

 

[northernneil]

Over the years I have been able to pick up a little bit of Esoterica tobacco. I guess I was lucky! However, I have found the pursuit to not be worth the reward. Too many people taking advantage of the situation. Call it capitalism if you want, but see it as a combination of greed and stupidity.

 

[rmbittner]

I'll just say that I would probably never pay the going resale price for Stonehaven. But I would never say it's not worth it. It is fantastic tobacco. And while, yes, you could buy a lot of other blends for the cost of one bag of Stonehaven on eBay, you won't be able to replicate the experience that Stonehaven delivers. There is literally nothing else like it on the U.S. market. (Germain makes another flake that is very very close to Stonehaven, but it is not available in the States.)
What I find so shocking about these prices, though, is that we're talking about a blend that is still in production. It's not a Pease Syrian or a Balkan Sobranie or a Craven A Mixture. So bags can still be found at their normal retail prices (although in quite limited quantities).
Bob

 

[timely]

+1 Petes03.!!!!

 

[rmbittner]

I can't help pointing out that, at $300 pound, we're still talking about less than $2 per bowl, assuming 10 bowls per ounce. This may sound like a lot if you're used to paying .50/bowl (for a $10 tin) or even less. But it's still dramatically cheaper per 30-45-minute smoke than a cigar of similarly high quality. (And, yes, I realize I'm completely ignoring the cost of the pipe in this equation.)
For rare, discontinued blends, I've paid $3-5/bowl just to have the once-in-a-lifetime experience of smoking a tin.
Of course, many don't care about once-in-a-lifetime smoking experiences; they just want an enjoyable smoke. But when compared with consumable pleasures of equal quality and scarcity -- say, a $15 cigar or a truly fine bottle of wine -- the pleasures of a pound of Stonehaven will last far longer, and therefore be far more affordable, in the long run.
Just my $300...
Bob

 

[mrenglish]

Capitalism being what it is, buying and selling it on eBay is fine. I cannot afford those prices but get lucky every so often and pick some up at retail prices. That said, at least P&C was up front about their price increase. While it may cost them the same as everyone else and they are making more profit per bag, at least they came out and said "this is what we will charge".
I agree with Dragonslayer about what he mentioned as well.

 

[zack24]

I'm just trying to keep my buying activity ahead of my smoking on Stonehaven...Just scored my 3rd bag from Milan Tobacco...Now if I could only smoke the stuff without going into orbit like I did the other night after smoking 4 bowls in a row...

 

[woodsroad]

I agree with the guy that disagrees with the general agreement that it's egregiously disagreeable to breech an implied agreement.

 

[misterlowercase]

I agree with the guy that disagrees with the general agreement that it's egregiously disagreeable to breech an implied agreement.

LOL!
I don't have anything to add except that I really like the nickname for Stonehaven in Asian countries,

V老饼

which translates as " V cake "
--------Here's an excerpt from a badly google-translated Japanese pipe blog:

I enjoy who Osusowake the "Stonehaven".

This is also a tobacco with memory in the shop of a certain USA was "ON STORE → kills him instantly."

In short supply and you are still, to obtain it is extremely difficult.
--------From a badly google-translated Chinese tobacco review of Stonehaven:

Bags are smoked, the feeling is good, but the pass was so unlike God, almost. Be sure to open cans put half of the year, when pumping with a small bucket, slowly suck. It feels great! Effort is small, fragrant (Green Apple) sweetness deep and turns aftertaste pancakes, fresh smell of tobacco and straightforward easier to meet the brother had enough of this kind of pure smokers smoking it. I feel a seasoning for transformation pumping. I think the swap tastes good!
Attributes: tight supply, should the main grain, select connoisseurs of food should be suitable for cellaring

 

[thedudeabides]

To Peck's point, the price-watching is amusing and interesting in and of itself.
To the other gents, I think there is a significant difference between selling on consignment (where the goal is to maximize the selling price for a third party) and selling your allotted supply as a retailer at an inflated rate. No, I am not trying to start a debate about what defines an "inflated rate."
I'm also not judging any of the retailers referenced in any way - simply reiterating that I believe there is an important distinction between consignment pricing on auction sites (or special sections of a retailer's website clearly labeled as "consignment") and standard retail pricing. I have purchased goods from both retailers referenced and enjoy doing business with each of them.
PS - come here little kiddies. I have some great Stonehaven for you to try. First bag is only $29.99....

 

[woodsroad]

select connoisseurs of food should be suitable for cellaring

I've always believed this, myself.

 

[scrapyardape]

when pumping with a small bucket, slowly suck.

Sounds like a typical Saturday night next door. :P

 

[planetary]

My main reaction is to agree with Eric's post above: Esoterica themselves should be realizing such profit from their work, not middle men. We all like to support retailers, but when it comes down to it, profit like this should do to the creators of the work. OTOH, manufacturers are choosing to continue to operate within the bounds of the existing retailer structure, so maybe it makes more business sense, given the sales data and the risk of losing retailer channels.

 

[dragonslayer]

On the OP, the price curve on all tobacco will become steeper, some far more than others. Controlling the supply on a few is increasing the value into the "worth it" area and greed becoming more common. There's a difference between making a profit and profiting by breaking rules or laws.
Being listed as consignment on Ebay is irrelevant. You are not permitted to sell any tobacco period. You may only sell the packaging of tobacco that is no longer in production. The fact that tobacco may still be inside needs to have a disclaimer and is irrelevant. People break this rule and eventually get accounts banned.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/tobacco.html#what
What will happen if this keeps up, Ebay will no longer permit any packaging containing tobacco from being listed. They've been actually lenient about this with the ability for minors to buy without proof of age. So this short term profiting by a few will hurt the honest sellers/buyers from getting actual out of production tobacco on Ebay. An example is Penzance, you can sell the out of production tins with or without tobacco, but they've stopped the listing of new bags. I'm sure Stonehaven will follow quickly.
Craig

 

[thedudeabides]

Good point dragonslayer. They certainly screwed this up for "collectable packaging" around alcohol, and now I can't even pay the highway robbery prices for Pappy Van Winkle I ranted I would never pay! You want to find out how much you would be willing to pay for something? Just wait until you can no longer purchase that item at any price and I assure you that number will go up! : )

 

[planetary]

Quoth dragonslayer:

On the OP, the price curve on all tobacco will become steeper, some far more than others. Controlling the supply on a few is increasing the value into the "worth it" area and greed becoming more common. There's a difference between making a profit and profiting by breaking rules or laws.

Well, let's suppose all this was occurring on Smoker's Forums auctions, for example, where it would not break rules. Seems perfectly fine in that case.
My only point is that there may be interesting direct (to customer) sales models that manufacturers should consider, so they capture more of this profit. In that case, I think this is most justifiable for limited production blends, like Christmas Cheer or GLP Tribute or GLP Stonehenge. Given the demand for Stonehaven and Esoterica's unwillingness or inability to keep up with production for the last couple years or so, I would also consider it a limited offering, in effect.
Alternately, rather than facing auctions, it seems like manufacturers could experiment with higher, but fixed, prices, to capture increased profit that the market will bear, but to offer the consumer a more stable buying experience. That would seem more in line with how other markets act, and would be my preference.
I would gladly pay $30/tin or even more for a brace of tins on a limited GLP or McClelland offering, for example. If posted at the current nominal rate (about $9/tin), I would probably miss my chance to buy any if the tins get posted to some retailer at a time when I'm in a meeting at work, or otherwise not able to check email, and you'd see eBay auctions spring up immediately -- meaning lost profit for the seller. It seems like there should be solutions to this problem that put the profit in the hands of the creators (rather than middle men), and the market can accept as not "evil".

 

[dragonslayer]

Planatary you're right on point. Tobacco is a great investment as are pipes which is increasing thanks to non-smokers and artisan's producing one of a kind works of art. The somewhat named grey-market of tobacco sales and trade will become very common. It may be the only way to acquire tobacco where you live. Down the road 5-10 years we'll see not just tins for sale but also bulk. Credibility will be a big factor especially in aged VA blends. The average person will be more likely to buy bulk vintage in smaller amounts. Big buyers if not already cellared will have their own sources, and pay the hefty tag. I see larger properly aged product opened and sold in 50 gram lots as an example. This is a prime example of credibility for not only the person but the site. There's been much posted about all of this and no matter where you fall on the subject, all agree on a simple fact. Tobacco will never cost less than it does today and will become more expensive on many fronts. The look of our hobby/luxury may change but it will survive.
I also wanted to add that why it may seem while breaking the rule on Ebay, you could also be stung and sell tobacco to a minor. The fact of "I didn't know and wrote a disclaimer" won't hold up in court, and selling over state lines through the mail is a hefty law to break. Seems silly but didn't Chong spend 7 years in jail selling a glass pipe through the mail to a cop in Pittsburgh were I live. Ironic that you can buy pot in many places, but not a pipe. Seems pot is moving in one direction and tobacco in the other, just ask those in WA.
Craig

 

[weezell]

A recent auction for two bags closed at around $220

Someone has more money than sense :crazy: ...

 

[drwatson]

I personally think that the whole thing is crazy and has no place on ebay either!