Spigot pipes?

[fitzy]

Nice pipes. I've wanted a spigot for quite some time. Just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
I've got Peterson's and they smoke great. However I personally wouldn't buy a low end Peterson. That whole dip stain thing kills me and I can get a comparable Savinelli for less money and in my opinion better quality. Not to mention their QC issues they seem to have on the lower end pipes.
Despite all that I would buy a Peterson Spigot.

 

[buroak]

In a full spigot type, the metal wraps around the end of the shank so that it covers the mortise wall. This gives a metal to metal fit when the metal covered tenon is inserted into the metal covered mortise. I've found this to be an extremely reliable fit.

I have never seen a full spigot type. Peterson, even Les Wood, do not make one. Must one look to old Loewe and Barling pipes to find one?

 

[blackbeard]

A military mount doesn't cover the mortise walls. Nor, as a rule, is the stem fitted with a metal fitment. So the fit with a military mount is wood against vulcanite. The fit is somewhat reliable, though not nearly as much as a spigot in my experience. While I like my military mount pipes, I NEVER clench them. I always hold the pipe. Too much of an opportunity for the fit to loosen and the bowl to hit the pavement.

So, what about this...it's Vulcanite/Vulcanite with the ferrule there. Does it classify as a Spigot...or what. It also, gets super tight...clench it often. I always worried about it coming out until I tested it.

It's a Bradberry Classic 320 by the way. Much like this one Beautiful.

 

[ssjones]

In a full spigot type, the metal wraps around the end of the shank so that it covers the mortise wall. This gives a metal to metal fit when the metal covered tenon is inserted into the metal covered mortise. I've found this to be an extremely reliable fit.

On my Spigots, the mortise end of the shank is only capped by silver (not covered). The metal-clad stem tenon is inserted into briar. I don't think there are metal covered mortise, at least I have never seen one.

 

[sablebrush52]

On my Spigots, the mortise end of the shank is only capped by silver (not covered). The metal-clad stem tenon is inserted into briar. I don't think there are metal covered mortise, at least I have never seen one.

Hi Al,
ALL of my spigots have metal sided mortises. That's a full spigot. You have a half spigot. But don't let yourself go through life feeling inadequate because of that. You're just as good as anybody else, half spigot or not.

 

[buroak]

On my Spigots, the mortise end of the shank is only capped by silver (not covered). The metal-clad stem tenon is inserted into briar. I don't think there are metal covered mortise, at least I have never seen one.
Hi Al,
ALL of my spigots have metal sided mortises. That's a full spigot. You have a half spigot. But don't let yourself go through life feeling inadequate because of that. You're just as good as anybody else, half spigot or not.

I think this thread has been more educational for current spigot pipe owners than for the chap looking to buy his first.

 

[ssjones]

What Buroak said! I definitely didn't know that Jesse. How about a picture of one of those beauties?
I struck out on google trying to locate one, but found this interesting page showcasing some old Barlings at the bottom of the page. I'd love to see the internals.
http://www.ascasonline.org/windowMAGGI72.html

 

[ssjones]

And this is me thinking about my half-spigot pipes. I was so blissfully naive, thanks Jesse!

 

[lordofthepiperings]

Spigots were invented I think around WWI, correct me if I'm wrong. They started because some soldiers broke the shank on their pipe in the field and used a bullet shell casing as a quick fix. Afterwards pipe makers saw a new market and started making pipes this way with gold or silver.
I've been wanting a Peterson one for a while, but haven't had the magic moment of funds and pipe at the same time. I can't speak to how they smoke... yet.

 

[bungee]

Modern metallic cartridges were invented in the mid 19th century and were in mass production and adopted by the US, British, French and German military by 1870 or before.
I'm not an expert but I read a lot. Many sources attribute the creation of the spigot connection to British and French cavalry officers whom repeatedly broke the stems of their pipes while riding intensely or galloping. The spigot was invented as a means for carrying a pipe disassembled and not for taking it apart in a hurry.
Bare in mind that:
a) Briar pipes were expensive and probably only the officers could afford them.

b) Unforeseen battles as seen in modern warfare were very rare. Hence the need to take a pipe apart in hurry was rare.
My two cents. Not sure if it is accurate but sounds reasonable.
Cheers,
J
P.S.: My two spigots are also half spigots as Al's. I definitely feel inadequate.

 

[sablebrush52]

Spigots were invented I think around WWI, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep, you're wrong. Spigots have been around since well before WW1, and very likely as far back as the 19th century.

 

[lordofthepiperings]

Yep, you're wrong. Spigots have been around since well before WW1, and very likely as far back as the 19th century.

WWI began in 1914, so even if spigots were invented in the 19th century they'd have to have been invented very early on, like around 1800, for that to be well before WWI. I'd be very much appreciative of any sources that place the birth of the spigot in the very vague time frame you mention. I can only recall seeing references to them being invented around the First World War which is why I mentioned it.

 

[buroak]

A decade or two prior to WWI sounds to me like "well before" WWI.
Here is a 1900 spigot.

 

[buroak]

The pipes in the photo Al posted look to predate 1900 by a fair bit, though I cannot tell if all three would truly be spigot pipes. The nearest two may have threaded fittings.

 

[sablebrush52]

WWI began in 1914, so even if spigots were invented in the 19th century they'd have to have been invented very early on, like around 1800, for that to be well before WWI. I'd be very much appreciative of any sources that place the birth of the spigot in the very vague time frame you mention.

My vague time frame would still be more accurate than your statement and you would be no less wrong. When you ask to be corrected and you are corrected, show some grace.
Two of the pipes that Al put up date to 1884, but the two very ornate pieces might be screw in, not friction based. However, the one in the back is a true spigot and I happen to own one with the same exact fittings from 1907, which is also well before WW1. And yes, you're still wrong. As for the definition proposed that spigots would have to date to 1800 to be well before WW1 I dismiss out of hand as an absurdity. Briar didn't come into widespread use until the 1850's.

 

[iamn8]

This is a REALLY slick spigot available at Smokingpipes right now... The spigot is titanium which is lighter and I'd imagine holds much better than silver. Check out the shape where metal meets metal! I'd buy it, but don't have $1300 at the moment

 

[lordofthepiperings]

1907, which is also well before WW1.

I'll agree to disagree on that point.

 

[lordofthepiperings]

, show some grace.

I think you should take your own advice.

 

[misterlowercase]

I think Sable gave the clear definitive answer.
Al and Buroak provided photographic evidence.
That should be that I'd reckon.
The general style is very very old, there's no question about that.

I think it was the fine British silversmiths who really took the spigot style to its highest expression.
The term spigot should not be confused with the terms army mount or military mount,

as they are different things.
Perhaps the common myth of origin was started by some fanciful copywriter at Peterson while compiling a catalog?

I dunno.
I fell for the story myself while researching the differences between army and military mounts:

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/military-mount-question#post-304025
But now my educated guess is that the style was simply an elegant evolution from the older antique pipes, modified and refined for the tastes for the time period in which they were made, which was most definitely the mid to late 1800's.
Easily removable friction fit stems are as old as the hills!

 

[misterlowercase]

See also:

this thread where Pitchfork bursted my bubble!

:idea:

:D

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/military-mount-definition
He correctly states:

The whole shell casing yarn sounds like one of those stories that gets told so many times that it becomes accepted as true. The 1912 BBB catalogue, for instance, had a gazillion different models with silver caps and tapered stems. They're called everything under the sun, including "army," "golf," "socket," etc.

It be truth.