So What Constitutes a Good Pipe?

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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,514
52,584
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Flatticus hit it. It's the cutting. Everything that will happen from there on, in its myriad of possibilities, is defined, or limited if you prefer, by what's in that block. The cutter's job is to maximize what is in the tumor, or burl and pull out the best parts available, based on his experience. It's no different than when Michelangelo went to the quarry and selected a block.
And now I'm off to beddy bye.

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,713
Flatticus hit it. It's the cutting. Everything that will happen from there on, in its myriad of possibilities, is defined, or limited if you prefer, by what's in that block. The cutter's job is to maximize what is in the tumor, or burl and pull out the best parts available, based on his experience. It's no different than when Michelangelo went to the quarry and selected a block.
Eccolo! The first revelation.

 

seagullplayer

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 30, 2014
500
138
Indiana
I have read countless of these threads, I may have even started one once.
I love to read what people think are important even when I am to naive to see

the point. But it helps keep the hobby alive and well.
I am just to practical for most of it, I even have a hard time calling it a "hobby" at times.
But I find that when I find a brier than smokes as good as any one of my corn cobs, I have found

a good one. That is my current bench mark, but it falls short in that I don't know I have done good

until after the money is on the table.

 

jorgesoler

Can't Leave
Dec 3, 2014
401
74
I personally like small bowls for flakes (Virginias and VaPers) whereas I would normally smoke my Latakia based tobaccos (English and Balkan blends) on larger bowls. This is to say I've nothing against intrinsically large bowls provided they've been properly machined. One of the main points I took from the other thread (I bring you the turds) is that making a pipe takes more skill than just drilling holes. Well, I quite agree with this statement. I know this comment is intended to highlight the new Instagram and YouTube turds, but I think it can be applied to many a reputable pipe makers too.

 
Mar 1, 2014
3,663
4,969
I don't have a lot of opinions on the briar itself, but the characteristics I do look for are:

A thin button with a nice smooth transition from round airway to the slot (filing off the corners in the airway makes it easier to clean, as well as theoretically better at avoiding hot spots in the airstream).

An open draw (the draw on a Missouri Meerschaum feels just fine).

A symmetrical stem (it's surprising how many stems I see that are off kilter).

An acrylic stem (I would rather not have to worry about polishing them).

Straight drilling (on that note I was unfair to Ferndown last time I mentioned it, the drilling on my Ferndown is perfect, but the bowl is wider at the bottom than most so the combination of that with it being a moderately bent pipe means the draft hole emerges closer to the wall than on some of my other pipes).

A tall bowl (the shape of the bottom is not important to me), and I'm still experimenting on what a good width is so I can't say exactly how wide is wide enough. For now I'll say I like a 1" bowl diameter, but definitely closer to 2" deep.

I prefer a Military mount but I'm getting used to the idea of a regular tenon, of course if it has a tenon it must be perfectly flush and not loose or too tight.

And lastly for now I prefer 9mm filter pipes.

 

wayneteipen

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
473
222
FWIW, I would only fully agree on #5 in the OP. The rest is based on the OP's personal preferences but not necessarily what the pipemaking or collecting community would agree is what makes for a quality made pipe. As far as quality construction and engineering, there is fairly consistent agreement on what constitutes a high quality/well made pipe amongst experienced pipemakers. When you start talking about aesthetics, things start to wander into personal preferences even amongst pipemakers but on certain things you can find a general consensus.

 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,671
83,668
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
I'm starting to see a disconnect in what the pipemaking community thinks and what smokers think. When I buy a pipe, it's my own preferences that outweigh what the general consensus of pipemakers and their friends think. In fact, their opinions matter zilch to me. But, I do appreciate a community that wants to attempt to bring me the best. I just think that this "best" left out the buying public in it's assessments. Or, relied on their exclusive circle for assessments.
But, many of us may not even have an interest in artisan made pipes. Factory pipes vary in their standards, and most of us have and enjoy quite a few of these.
I just thought that I would throw that out there, ha ha. But, thanks for the efforts you guys make. Or, some of you guys make. ...or at least the effort to discuss. :puffy:

 

freakiefrog

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 26, 2012
745
3
Mississippi
Here is my check list for buying a pipe.
#1 - Do I like the shape

#2 - Do I like the finish

#3 - Do I like the size, this is over all, bowl, stem length ect

#4 - Will it pass a cleaner

#5 - Grain

#6 - Fit and finish
If those things meet my standards I'll buy it. I have passed over great looking well made pipes because they had loose stems and wouldn't pass a cleaner.

 
Mar 30, 2014
2,853
94
wv
A good pipe?

The one you can't wait for to dry out so you smoke it ASAP.

A bad pipe?

The rack queen with two inches of dust on it.

 

wayneteipen

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
473
222
I'm starting to see a disconnect in what the pipemaking community thinks and what smokers think.
How so? Can you give some examples?
I ask because this hasn't been my experience at all. Most of them that I personally know maintain a presence on pipe forums like this one to stay up on trends in customer expectations. Most of us started out as pipe enthusiasts who love to talk about pipes. As much as I enjoy it, I personally stopped participating as much on the forums because of a thread on smokersforum a few years ago where the members were discussing how much they disliked pipemakers presence on the boards. I listened to the customers' feedback. I would rather be a pipesmoker who also makes pipes and participate but I realize there can be a conflict of interest and it sometimes creates an uncomfortable environment for the members. I try to stick to posting to topics when I can be helpful or add some insights. I personally have changed a lot in the design of my pipes along the way based on customer feedback from the size of my buttons, the width of my stems, the size of my pipes, and rounding the edges of my slots. Someone on another recent thread mentioned they wished I made more traditional shapes so intend to work on finding a better balance there to offer more of what folks want to see. I don't know a single pipemaker who doesn't or wouldn't do the same things based on customer feedback.
I think this thread is confusing quality with personal preferences. Quality is more objective while personal preference is subjective. A pipemaker has more control over quality than he does over personal preferences. The OP is a perfect example. Proper drilling where the airway terminates bottom center of the tobacco chamber and doesn't overshoot and dig into the back of the chamber is an objective example of quality. A pipe that fits nicely in the customers hand is a subjective example of a personal preference. Personal preferences can be all over the map as this thread demonstrates. A pipemaker can and should meet certain quality standards but they can never meet everyone's personal preferences.

 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,671
83,668
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
wayneteipen

I by no means speak for anyone but myself and my own opinions. And, excuse me, I may have been stuck with my head in the turd thread still, ha ha. But, there are some things that I think that a group mentality gets set upon that doesn't translate to the variety of pipe smokers. For one, notice how a tapered draft with flared draft at the button doesn't come up much in these few threads that have started in response to the turd? A smaller draft or larger draft seems to be how we translate our appreciation of the draft. And, while I appreciate these details, I don't think it translates very much for me in my experience with smoking, as the majority of factory pipes don't have these nuances in detail, and many of them we are willing to pay more than most artisans charge.
I for one also love a thin chamber on my Dublins, for at least for part of my collection. I have six Hilson stacked dublins that are my favorites that come in at a hair under a quarter of an inch. I like these because they force me to feel the heat of the chamber and adjust my cadence. And, none have burned out. (knock on wood) Yeh, personal preference, I know. But, a quality none-the-less.
As I read the PMF string it seems they thought that a draft with no taper, no flared draft, etc were something that was a terrible for all of us and "hurts the industry." When Stanwell, Savinelli, and many other companies don't seem to have been hurt by not paying any head to these nuances.
As for you and what you do, I would think that joining in on the camaraderie would only be a plus. I have no idea where the statements that someone wanted pipemakers off of our forums comes from, unless they were trying to tell us what we want or need. Or, maybe the makers got offended at some criticism. I can easily see someone rudely shooting down a maker. We can be a cantankerous bunch at times. But, that is also an opportunity, or can be with a little tact.
Maybe I am mixing quality with preferences, as everyone else is, but I have said and will continue to defend quality as subjective also. I might suggest The Zen of Motorcycle Maintenance. The whole book goes into the philosophy of the subjective nature of quality as it pertains to motorcycles and life, Great book, IMO.
In setting back and watching a few pipemakers discuss pipes at The Briary, they went over all of this minutia about stem design and drafts that I just don't think most of us would really notice. Maybe noticing these drafts and flairs is a learned nuance like learning to differentiate the nuances of Virginias. It might take years to pick up on it. I don't know. But, some guys appreciate it, and some don't care. While some pipemakers like Tinsky has his stems all injector casted and the stummels are all hand carved, and Todd's pipes are the opposite with the widgit mass produced bowls and hand made stems, these are nuances that I just don't think matter for most, or at least they NEVER come up in discussions on here.
Do we need to be educated on this. Ha ha, someone can try, but having someone tell me what I should be looking for strikes a kneejerk reaction of walking away. Now, telling me how you do it, perks up my ears. That interests me. But, telling me that I should always look for this or that doesn't. Does that make sense?
We all have our differences here. Some like to hold their pipes, and some like to clench. Some like to do both. Some are slow smokers, and some like to make big puffs of smoke. Some will notice the nuances of how the smoke enters their mouth, and some don't. Some like thin chambers, some don't. Some guys prefer cobs to a Becker, and some only buy the most expensive pipes that fit a much more detailed list of criteria than I have.
This is what I mean. It is awesome that some pipemakers will set strict standards for themself. I can appreciate that. In my own work, I take each setting and look at it under a microscope to be sure that no file marks can be seen under stone settings that most can't even see with the naked eye. I know that at some point another jeweler may be looking at my work under a microscope on down the line. These are great things. But, not everyone wanting an engagement ring is going to go to a jeweler that does this, or even care. We tend to live by the best noticeable standards that we can afford. And, I can take one of those pokers with flames, straight draft, and just a wheel bur indention at the button and make it smoke like a Becker for me with enough time.
Ugg, This is getting lengthy, and I apologize again. Basically, quality is subjective, IMO. it may be that Peck and other high end collectors would rather not smoke at all as to smoke from one of my favorite burners. And, if given the opportunity, I might find one of the best handmades not to meet my expectations either. Just on here, some had issues with Rad's pipes, whereas many said they love them. Differences make the world go around.
Was I just jumbled, or did this make sense. And, thank you for being on here and discussing this with us. I for one treasure talking to artists. :puffy:
If I failed to specify that I am only talking from my own opinion, I am sorry. I am no spokesman for any one or group. Just my own insights.

 

jorgesoler

Can't Leave
Dec 3, 2014
401
74
For some time, I used to love big chunky Danish style pipes, but now I find myself swinging back to the English old fashion billiards, Dublins, Rhodesians, and the like. I know most of the Instagram pipe makers are only trying to be creative, but I'll be much too self concious if I had to smoke in many of their pipes.
turd_zpse3ijnqtl.jpg


 

wayneteipen

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
473
222
I think any perceived subjectivity in quality is more a matter of what an individual deems an acceptable compromise. Quality is weighted in the individuals mind by what matters most to them. Some don't really care if the airway is a bit high in the chamber. Some don't care if there's a slight gap where the stem meets the shank. That doesn't negate the fact that a well fitting stem and a well drilled pipe are objective signs of higher quality craftsmanship. Cosmicfolklore's jeweler example of file marks is an excellent example. Some customers could care less about file marks that they can't see but it is nonetheless a sign of a level of a higher quality craftsmanship. Who really cares about file marks under the stone that you can't see with the naked eye? I would if I were paying the same amount of money as the same ring with better craftsmanship. That's really the crux of the good/bad pipe discussion. As a customer, I want the price of what I'm buying to be commensurate with the quality. That's really what Todd Johnson not so eloquently is saying and many pipemaker's are agreeing with.
Anyway, it's a fun conversation when we don't let our dislike of personalities get in the way.

 

wayneteipen

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
473
222
To complicate matters more, some pipes that don't have the objective signs of quality can perform well. I have a few myself. Additionally, some pipes that do have the objective signs of quality can perform terrible. I've had some of those too and sold them off. I believe, though, that when a pipe is crafted to the highest quality possible, the chances of better performance is greatly increased. I also believe there is a price point where you run into diminishing returns on your investment. Narrowing that gap is a good goal. Poorly constructed pipes that encroach into that territory make it more difficult for the consumer.

 

wayneteipen

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
473
222
Good points, flatticus. I agree that the market should correct problems in quality by itself and it's not the place of the pipemaker. I'm also with you on stems that are too thin. Maybe a more objective way to define subjective opinions about bit thickness is to express it as an acceptable range that connotes higher quality and attention to detail.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
611
wayne,
I asked this same question on the "bad pipe" thread, but may as well post it here. And I think almost everyone here appreciates the fact that pipemakers mix it up on the forums with the rest of us.
Anyhow, I'll just put it as explicitly as possible. What is it that constitutes a "turd pipe"? And is that mainly in terms of "engineering" and fit and finish, or does it include aesthetics as well? I'm just really curious what kinds of things are being done by certain pipe makers that raises the ire of conscientious pipemakers.

 

sparrowhawk

Lifer
Jul 24, 2013
2,941
220
I've written the praises of the Cayuga line of pipes produced at Paul's Pipe Shop in Flint, MI several times now. I think what makes their pipes so great is the "oil curing" that each Cayuga is treated. It somehow opens up the grain and lightens, physically, the pipe itself. I took one of my Cayugas, a shell grain sandblasted billiard, and set it next to another pipe of approximately the same size and length, and compared the clenching of the two. The Cayuga was noticably easier to clench than the second pipe. And they treat the chamber with a formula they call "Miracle Cake" that helps break the pipe in. These two things aren't just advertising gimmicks--they genuinely work, and I think is the reason the Cayugas--I have four of them now--smoke so well. Check them out and call for what you're looking for--you won't be disappointed.
img_07601-600x277.jpg


 

sparrowhawk

Lifer
Jul 24, 2013
2,941
220
Something I'd like to mention, and I hope no one takes offense to this, but if you own a pipe that turns out to be a turkey--a turd as some have called such pipes--and trade or sell them, I think you may be doing the piper community a disservice. I recently had a pipe returned from eBay that had a flaw that I was unaware of, and the return was amicably handled, but I'm not going to attempt to sell this pipe, a Castello Sea Rock, again. Instead, I'm sending it to the FPP for repair and donation. A bad pipe should be returned if possible, repaired if worth it, and if not, simply dispose of it, despite the financial cost you may personally incur. It's simply, to me at least, not very ethical to pass down a defective pipe.

 
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