But on the bright side , Spain yet Germany & Poland are and will remain the most tobacco friedly countries in the whole EU
Smoking Law in Great Britain
- Thread starter InWithBothFeet
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Hey in my retirement I could become the Dutch Schultz of the U.K tobacco rackets - think of the money guys. With a handful of drones I could flood the U.K with knock off Condor made in an illicit factory in Bulgaria flavored with termite turds and recycled fag ends! 
This absolutely. To make a law is one thing; to enforce it, quite another.Drug/alcohol prohibition never seems to work. I can't wait for 40 years time when a 58 year old has to provide id to buy a pack of ciggies.
"i'm sorry but you don't look 58 years old or over so i'm gonna have to see some id."
Clown world
Your friendly black marketeer will be found just around the corner, though.
Sounds promising, get transatlantic distribution figured out for your Bolghar Bird Blend ASAP.Hey in my retirement I could become the Dutch Schultz of the U.K tobacco rackets - think of the money guys. With a handful of drones I could flood the U.K with knock off Condor made in an illicit factory in Bulgaria flavored with termite turds and recycled fag ends!
I never even thought about it but you're right. In the US a lot of stores have a policy of carding anybody the cashier perceives to look under 30 or 35 which is hilariously absurd already but I can't imagine that going up and up. Plus who's to say that 58 year old isn't making a straw purchase for his 57 year old mate?Drug/alcohol prohibition never seems to work. I can't wait for 40 years time when a 58 year old has to provide id to buy a pack of ciggies.
"i'm sorry but you don't look 58 years old or over so i'm gonna have to see some id."
Clown world
Which is exactly what they want
Most pubs will have a dodgy geezer who will sell you knock of cigarettes from China that cost half the price. That'll just grow and grow.
LOL! That's what I was thinking.Oh great. Any grandkids I might get are going to be 'Betas?' Swell. I suppose should be glad won't be born-to-be Gammas.
"hi, i'm Gen-X
" "pleased to meet you, i'm a beta
"
As if all the taxes weren't enough to put people off anyways. Here in Ireland it's €20 for 25g of pipe tobacco. Everyone I know who smoked cigarettes has switched to zyn pouches simply because they're a lot cheaper, so I won't be surprised if a smokeless generation just gets hooked on them instead. Just glad I found piping this early before they get a chance to outlaw that!
What took the cake for me was a fella trying to sell a live chicken in a cage in a pub I was in once. Haven't been back since but always wonder what that chicken is up to
She just wanted to cross the road.
Yeah when I was a teenager plenty of teens smoked cigarettes, by the time my brother was in high school nobody did but far more vaped than ever smoked when I was that age. Vaping and Zyn are attracting lots of young people who never would've smoked even without other options for nicotine.
Because the non-tobacco products (i.e. vaping) are worse than even cigarette smoking. 2024 saw the release of 2 studies: In Korea cigarette smokers quitting vs. those continuing vs. those switching to e-cigarettes. After 5 years risk ratios were 1.0 vs 1.5 vs 1.65.
Another study compared cigarette smokers to those smoking cigarettes and vaping. relative risk ratio 4.0.
Those are incredible numbers and cannot be explained by harmful substances in vaping. Prior studies on radon exposure, particles in indoor air after smoking cigarettes and e-cigarettes and heated tobacco products make it clear, that the missing link is the radon. Yes, the effect is well known in science, but it was highly underestimated and probably causes >50% of the bad outcomes regarding lung instead of just 7%.
Cigarette smoking always had the conundrum that every health-related issue was dose dependent except the lungs. Very few cigarettes per day, bad outcome, one pack a day, not that much worse, you really have to smoke several packs per day to further increase the risk. Radon synergistic effect with particle emission after indoor smoking explains it.
Interestingly pipe smoking is mostly not burning tobacco, but a dry destillation at 100-300 degrees Celsius. It is known since the 1950s when a paper on burning temperatures of cigarette, cigar and pipe smoking came out.
That means pipe smoking is very similar to the modern heated tobacco products: 1/3 the harmful substances per same amount of tobacco and nearly no particulate matter emissions (+30% in heated tobacco vs 30x increase in cigarette smoking), and so no radon link.
From least to most dangerous for our lungs
1. Pipe Smoking (study over 26 years from 1985-2011 in US shows +50% risk)
2. Heated Tobacco (no data, but 350 degree temperature very similar to effective pipe temperatures + the smoke is inhaled)
3. Cigarette Smoking (same study as for 1 shows +1100% risk increase)
4. Vaping (no clear data, but shown to increase alpha radiation particulate matter indoors worse than cigarettes + 2 studies I mentioned above showing higher risk for lungs than cigarette smoking)
Now the UK starts to outlaw products 1 - 3, but the *worst* alternative, no. 4, will become their only alternative.
Considering that one of the few studies of reasonable size and duration, the one I linked in my prior post, shows mortality rates compared to non-smokers over 26 years to be 2x for cigarette smokers, 1.2x for cigar smokers 1.09x for daily pipe smokers and 0.64x for non-daily pipe smokers, a resonable solution would be to smoke less in general, more cigars and more pipe, and not to outlaw all tobacco products while pushing future generations to even worse products than cigarettes.
Anecdotally I've heard a lot of people say vaping is far more addicting psychologically because there's no obvious point to stop. My dad said all of his coworkers who smoked cigs have switched to vaping and take far longer and more frequent breaks. With a cigarette you reach the butt and that's it unless you light another but with a vape you can keep going until the cartridge runs dry. Also with vaping you're sailing in uncharted waters, with smoking the risks have been thoroughly documented so you know what you're signing up for. Lung cancer and emphysema usually take years to develop, in coming years I'm sure we'll see more and more long term consequences of vaping we don't yet know about.
In reference to my previous post about MAOIs... I actually tried a while back to switch from cigarettes to vape and I could never be satisfied by the vape. I'd keep going on it until I started getting sick (nicotine poisoning).
That's why I looked into that stuff before. Most "e-liquid" is just nicotine (as far as anything that's not PG or whatever else to make the vapor). They started selling "salt nic" juices or whatever you call them that are supposed to have more of the "alkaloids" than just the nicotine, and are therefore supposed to be more satisfying to ex-cigarette smokers.
I didn't try vaping long, and I don't know if those "full salts" or "full alkaloid" or whatever liquids are even what they purport to be, or if their effects are even close to the same as cigarettes. I kept trying to look into it but could only find pseudo scientific claims, no real studies, supposed "studies" which provided no methodology or direct data and so on.
I am only going on memory about what I read about MAOIs and addictive nature of nicotine with and without them, and that was from a study done long before vapes and had nothing to do with them. Memory is fallible and I'm too lazy to look up what I found before on the subject, which hell could have been disproved by now for all I know.
But, some of the "vaping is more addictive" could be purely psychological—as in, not necessarily a stronger physical dependence/craving of nicotine, but the craving for the pacifier, habituation of longer use-time, lack of perception of how much is consumed or how long a given session has lasted (no feedback until the cartridge runs out, which a cartridge can last longer than a cigarette), etc.
That's something that always bugged me about the vape push and claims that they were safer than cigarettes. Like sure, it makes intuitive sense that it would be safer by lacking tar and other known carcinogens that are found in smoke (any smoke, not just cigarette smoke, as well as carcinogens specific to cigarette smoke)... but there was not nearly enough time passed and use to study to know or be able to say that they were safer... for all anyone knew at the time, there could be other components found in vape use different from cigarettes that were just as harmful as stuff found in cigarettes. I know I've seen "Truth" commercials against vaping with claims that vapes can expose you to toxic heavy metals, which may or may not be true to begin with, and even if it IS true, doesn't mean you're exposed to high enough concentrations to even see any negative health effects from it.
It's a whole host of factors that need to be considered and carefully studied over a long time, and I don't know if any are even being conducted (too lazy to look it up and not motivated enough to dig through mountains of garbage to see if there is even anything legitimate on the subject).
No matter how you kick the bucket, end of life care is expensive. The longer you live, the more your life has cost the healthcare system no matter which way you slice it. If the cost to our healthcare system isn't the issue, then as you said, it's about legislating morality, which is inconsistent and subjective.