Smokers Haven Krumble kake

[misterlowercase]

One would think JT would make and sell their own pipe tobacco line. Instead, they have MacBaren produce an excellent aromatic called Momoyama II and ship it to Japan only.

Funny you should mention Momoyama.
I've never smoked it, but I do know it has a good reputation amongst those who know.
In the way way back days, it was actually produced by the Japan Monopoly Corporation, if you can believe that, LOL, what a moniker that is!

Japan Tobacco is the successor entity to a nationalized tobacco monopoly first established by the Government of Japan in 1898 to secure tax revenue collections from tobacco leaf sales. In 1904, the government's leaf monopoly was extended to a complete takeover of all tobacco business operations in the nation, including all manufactured tobacco products such as cigarettes. The ostensible reason for the expansion of control was to help fund the 1904 Russo-Japanese War, but because all foreign tobacco interests in Japan at the time were forcibly evicted under the monopolization scheme, this also protected the domestic tobacco business for nearly eighty years.
The business operated within the Japanese government as an arm of the nation's Japanese Ministry of Finance until 1949 when the Japan Tobacco and Salt Public Corporation (日本専売公社 Nippon Senbai Kōsha?) was established to carry out restrictive labor relations policies under of the U.S. and allied forces' Occupation of Japan. The Japan Tobacco and Salt Public Corporation remained a complete state monopoly under direct Japanese Ministry of Finance authority until 1985, when Japan Tobacco, Inc. was formed as a publicly traded stock company. With periodic incremental sales of the public's ownership beginning in October 1994, Japan Tobacco became two-thirds owned by the Japanese Ministry of Finance in June 2003 and the ministry continued to own 50% until March 2013. It was announced in May 2012 that the government would sell one-sixth of the company's outstanding shares to raise ¥500 billion to finance reconstruction from the 2011 earthquake and tsunami. In 2013 the Japanese government disclosed the details of its plans to reduce its equity interest in Japan Tobacco by $10 billion, devoting the proceeds to reconstruction in northeastern Japan. The ministry of finance sold the stock in March 2013, selling about 333 million of the 1 billion shares it owned at that time. The government remains required by law to own at least one-third of JT's stock.

Momoyama used to even come in ye olde cutter-top form!

 

[smokershaven]

I was in Smokers Haven in Columbus a few months ago, when they were closing up their existing B&M site. I asked about Krumble Kake and the Our Best Blend and the guy told me that it's(for the most part) not coming back. And even if it did they're so backlogged for orders for it, newcomers wouldn't ever see a tin. derfargin

Derfargin,

I am not sure who you spoke with at my shop, but they told you the wrong information. Once all waiting list/back orders are filled, it will become available. As to when that will happen, I cannot say or predict it until J.F. Germain & Son starts producing it for us.
Hello Friends,
Germain has confirmed 100% that Krumble Kake and Penzance are not the same. Krumble Kake was developed in the 1950's by Joe Zieve & Sobranie. It was the first of its kind. Later, a copy was made called Bengal Slices, then a similar blend called Penzance.
I still have not received any confirmation from Germain about when Krumble Kake will be produced. Our waiting list for it is so large, that even when it arrives, there will not be availability for a long time.
I am so sorry that I do not have more information on the availability of Krumble Kake and Our Best Blend. It really is out of my hands. I am awaiting word from Germain on the subject.
Please note that J.F. Germain & Son highly values their customers, and they will not sacrifice the quality for quantity. It is a 200 year old company that is still in operation making the highest quality product in their field.
Here is a little write up I did on the evolution of Krumble Kake, Bengal Slices, & Penzance. This is to the best of my knowledge what occurred.
In about the early 1950's, the founder of Smokers' Haven had an idea for a revolutionary tobacco blend. It was going to be a full English that was cut, pressed and cut into slices. This way, you could rub it out with only one hand and fill your pipe. It was also so compressed that you could carry a weeks supply on you without a big bulge in your pocket. With the help of Sobranie to produce it for Smokers' Haven Krumble Kake was born as a blend and as a style of tobacco. A couple decades later, after the huge success of Krumble Kake in the USA, Sobranie replicated Krumble Kake with Bengal Slices and made it available to the world. The base recipe of Bengal Slices was changed after a couple of years. This was in the mid 1970's. In about the late 1970's when Sobranie closed its factory, the Krumble Kake recipe and all of the equipment to make it was transferred over to J. F. Germain & Son to produce for Smokers' Haven. In about 1984 after Joe Zieve sold Smokers' Haven to the second owner, Smokers' Haven lost the account with Germain due to financials. In 1987 my family acquired Smokers' Haven and we had no clue about the legendary Krumble Kake. A few years later, Steve Richman of Piedmont tobacconist contracted with J.F. Germain & Sons to replicate the old Smokers' Haven blends and hence, Esoterica was born including Penzance. Penzance is a little different in recipe but it is close to Krumble Kake. Steve decided wholesale tobacco supplying was not for him so he sold the Esoterica line to Michael Butera. In 2002 I approached Michael Butera to see if he would contact Germain to produce Krumble Kake for us. Michael got back to me a few weeks later, and said OK! Krumble Kake was back in stock starting in March of 2003 to about 2009. Since Butera sold his distribution of Esoterica, I have not been able to get Krumble Kake back yet. I am working on it still.

 

[rickpal14]

What a great thread!! Thanks for all the info Lowercase and Premal!

 

[yohanan]

This has been a very interesting thread, Thanks to tarheel1 for starting the thread, and hats off to everyone who is contributing all this great information.

 

[misterlowercase]

:worship:

Premal,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post such great information!
Most excellent stuff.
I have a suspicion that tobacco carries a fairly low return margin and in most cases a vendor may choose to just drop them, so I applaud your true enthusiasm for maintaining that line, you actually saved Smokers Haven, along with keeping the historical heritage intact, and actually initiated an evolution of the shop which remains unmatched in the USA - nowhere else is such a broad range of US artisan makers represented, and that's truly a great thing.
I have mentioned in the past my love for the SH logo,

it's the best!
I must also mention your intense dedication to the field of pipemaking. Not only are you in the premier league of American artisan makers, but you have the patience and dedication to actively engage with newer makers on the scene and help shepherd them into higher realms of precise and functional craftmanship execution, it's obvious that you have a deep knowledge of the briar arts, and that you freely share that hard-won info is a treasure to the whole enthusiast community at large, makers and smokers alike.
I'll never forget when I mentioned to Wayne Teipen how a pipe he had made for me had an absolutely *perfect* draw, and I do mean *perfect*

- I have one of his earlier pipes, and while it draws well, the newer pipe he had made was just incredible in that department --- he told me pointblank that you had showed him some "tricks" to improve the airway dynamics, and whatever that "trick" is, it works like a champ!
My smoking life has been enhanced by your presence on the scene, and I very much appreciate you being such a good guy!
Thank you.

::

 

[smokershaven]

misterlowercase,
Thank you! I am so sorry that there is this little bump in the road right now with the retail location.
All of the pipe makers that I have worked with and been able to help are good people, and they are all much more talented than I am at pipe making. I am blessed to have been able to work with them. They have also helped and taught me quite a bit.

 

[dmcmtk]

Great thread, great information gentlemen!

 

[av8scuba]

For what it's worth, I've found C&D Pirate Kake to be a semi-close substitute for Penzance. No, it is not the same, but more avaliable, cheaper, and close enough for this hillbilly. ::

 

[sablebrush52]

Great to have all of this background on Krumble Kake. What I take from Premal's contribution is, "Don't hold your breath waiting for it to become available."

 

[misterlowercase]

Something I take away from the great history presented is how Joseph Zieve came up with a totally new format for a Lat blend,

the flake!
That's cool,

a whole new genre.
And if KK was the first ever Lat flake,

then it's historical importance is even more amplified in my book!

::

 

[smokershaven]

Something I take away from the great history presented is how Joseph Zieve came up with a totally new format for a Lat blend,

the flake!
That's cool,

a whole new genre.
And if KK was the first ever Lat flake,

then it's historical importance is even more amplified in my book!

I think there was already a few Latakia Flakes being made well before the 1950's, but Krumble Kake was the first Cake or "Krumble Kake" Leaf is Cut first, then pressed, then cut again.

 

[woodsroad]

I know the following is in a totally different league, but when JTI bought Gallaher of Ireland, the amount of money was staggering!
$1,137,000,000,000 USD

JTI was buying Gallaher's cigarette business. The pipe tobacco came along for the ride. AFAIK, Gallaher's no longer produces any pipe tobacco, they license everything to STG.
Steam Jacketed Presses:
This is a legacy from the time when pipes were king, and there was lots of money being made from pipe tobacco. A company had to innovate to gain market share, and the money was there to do R&D. A quick perusal of the Legacy Tobacco Library will reveal the scope of research that the majors carried out in product development, production and marketing. To build a steam jacketed press today that can be operated safely and economically would be pretty damned expensive. A company would have to be able to sell an awful lot of steam-pressed product to justify the expense. I have faith that it would pay off, but I also don't have access to the market research and sales figures to back that up.
In researching how Gallaher's War Horse Bar (a steam-pressed plug) was produced, it becomes clear that not only was there a substantial investment in the steam presses, but that the process itself was labor and time intensive. Product was run through these presses multiple times, sometimes one piece at a time. So one has to consider the added cost of designing and building automated presses.
And what was it that finally shut down JTI/Gallaher's Ireland cigarette business? Labor costs. This despite operating a fairly modern, fully automated plant. JTI will relocate production elsewhere, and don't be surprised if that ends up being in Asia somewhere, although rumor has it that it may be in Eastern Europe. Either way, the move will drastically cut labor costs and put production closer to their markets. Will we be seeing pipe tobacco production moved to those areas? Possibly. I would think that with the growing interest in pipe smoking in China, that wouldn't be a bad move.

 

[ram74]

Honestly I don't see how Germain can't give an ETA for producing Krumble Kake. There isn't a product on the planet that a manufacturer can't give an ETA for. Only two things can hold up production, sourcing the tobaccos or processing it. We know Penzance is being produced which is similar, so sourcing the tobacco is not the problem. If the bottle neck is processing then after five years of them not producing it most likely they never will. I am more interested in Our Best Blend but after waiting for three years I have lost hope of ever trying it.

 

[misterlowercase]

Excellent post Dan!

:clap:
Great stuff about the steam-presses!
:

:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHhDDBHn6Q

:

:
I noticed watching the above video clip about Gallaher's closing a sign out front and one had an arrow directional for OTP (other tobacco products?), it makes me think maybe Condor is still being made in Ireland?
Also,

the Condor Plug is unlike any of the other Danish-made plugs in that it still comes in the old-style Murray's era wrapper, and it is sized differently as well, at 25g.
I suspect,

but cannot confirm.
Do you have any further info about the JTI pipe tobacco division?

:puffpipe:

 

[misterlowercase]

Looking at the

It appears as if Condor is probably still made in Ireland,

http://www.patentsoffice.ie/eregister/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=238832
It's interesting to see the registration date for War Horse,

1902!

http://www.patentsoffice.ie/eregister/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=37118
STG has got all the others...

http://www.patentsoffice.ie/eregister/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=235318
:
http://www.patentsoffice.ie/eregister/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=233765
:
Orlik even got Garryowen Plug,

wish they still made it!

http://www.patentsoffice.ie/eregister/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=36625
:
etc etc
::

 

[misterlowercase]

Wow,

finally found a wrapper for the mysterious Bendigo!
It's for the coil, but they sold it as a plug too,

it survived for quite a long time.

 

[davidintexas]

Great info MLC. Thanks for the research. Your efforts have greatly enriched the value of this forum. I appreciate it.

 

[misterlowercase]

Krumble Kake is even more scarce than Penzance and this is reflected in the asking prices (and prices paid) in the aftermarket...
...but this price here seems just a bit on the totally insane side:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bens-SEALED-2003-Krumble-Kake-8oz-Pipe-Tobacco-Pouch-In-Original-Packaging-/272090402888?hash=item3f59da1048:g:jFAAAOSw3KFWg3hA
I wonder if anyone will buy it?
Kinda doubt it,

but ya never know with such things.

:!:

 

[iamn8]

I just bought a 2oz tin from pipestud. Was on my unicorn list.