Smokers Haven Krumble kake

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tarheel1

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 16, 2014
936
2
I know a lot of people say this is the same as Penzance, but they say the same about Germain's Special Latakia Flake. Thanks to a friend, i will have a tin of slf to compare to penzance. If i can find any Krumble Kake i will compare that also, but unlikely. So those who have compared them what say you? Are they all similar, or are they different enough? Three white whales to aquire. Is it hype or all good?

 

mrenglish

Lifer
Dec 25, 2010
2,220
72
Columbus, Ohio
Krumble Kake is more VA forward than Penzance. There is still a good amount in KK, but more VA. Its almost like they switched with Penzance and made latakia the forward component. Both are really good though, it will be really nice when KK hits the shores again.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
Since you're on the noble quest,

this may be of interest to you...
http://www.hu-tobacco.de/epages/63080810.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63080810/Products/%22FBM%20Fayyum%20Kake%22&ViewAction=ViewProduct
FayyumKAKE_P1000456-550.jpg


FayyumKAKE_P1000458-550.jpg


 
May 31, 2012
4,295
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3nAtF4q.png

The reason that tin sold for so much is because it's very old and from the original House of Sobranie production.
A Brief History of Smokers' Haven:
In June of 1940 Smokers' Haven was opened by its founder Joseph Zieve, his wife Ina, and his brother in-law Sid Ritter. Joe and Sid were pioneers in the Retail market of pipes and tobaccos, and established a real Specialty Tobacco shop. From 1940 until the late 1970's, Smokers' Haven was one of the largest and most distinguished Pipe and Tobacco shops in the world with an inventory of over 10,000 English pipes and a range of some of the best Pipe Tobacco Blends. Joe and Sid would take frequent trips to England to develop new tobacco blends and new shapes for GBD pipes so they could offer unique and quality products for their customer base which numbered over 60,000. In the late 1970's and early 1980's, the pipe market started to dwindle and many of the pipe and tobacco suppliers discontinued their products. In 1983, Joe Zieve retired and sold Smokers' Haven. The 2nd owner did not adapt to the market, and Smokers' Haven almost disappeared. In 1987, my father Arvind Chheda, purchased Smokers' Haven and rescued it from demise. Throughout the late 1980's and 1990's Cigars were the primary focus for Smokers' Haven. In 1999, I was passed the torch, and I have taken an interest in Pipes, and the methods in which Joseph Zieve serviced his customers. From 2000 to present, Smokers' Haven has re-introduced the Specialty Products it was known for, and I hope to create a similar experience for our customers that Smokers' Haven did in the past.

Regards,

Premal Chheda
:
Here's a bit more,

from the ASP archives:
Many moons ago prior to 1960, Sobranie made private label blends for Smoker's

Haven here in Columbus. Sobranie white was Our Best Blend....Cognac was

Sobranie white with a cognac blender...20th anniversary was White with an Ale

Blender. And Krumble Kake was unique...essentially Sobranie White made into a

cake then sliced. The owners of SH had a letter from Dr Redstone, the big boss

at Sobranie Limted attesting to that. In 1980 with little or no warning

Sobranie got out of the private label business and the owner of Smokers' Haven

had to scramble - Dr. Redstone was mortified at his compnay's decision and

volunteered to help find a replacement company. They came up with 2 --- Robt

McConnell and JF Germain. Joe Zieve, the owner of Smokers'Haven for some

reason did not like Mick McConnell and the decision was taken to let JF Germain

have the account. Thus JF Germain began making these excellent blends.

Sometime after 1985 the new owners of Smokers's Haven came to a parting of the

way with Germain...I had left by then and I don't know the reason.
:
And,

another tangent:
Mike Butera now owns the brand, but Esoterica Tobaciana was formed by Steve

Richman, now owner of The Piedmont Tobacconist, Oakland, California, in

1988.

The blend chosen for Penzance is nearly identical, if not exactly the same

as the tobacco which had been made for Smoker's Haven in Columbus, Ohio

called "Krumble Kake”...

I feel a strong bond to the original Esoterica line. Steve has been a very

good friend for nearly 20 years, and when he started bringing in tobaccos

for consideration, he asked me to be one of the "official taste testers."

Together with a few other worshipers of the leaf, we carefully selected from

the many samples sent by Germain.
-GLPease
krumblekake2oztin.jpg

krumble-kake-72219919.jpg

smokers-haven-logo.jpg

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
If the old manufacturers won't modernize their plant, why don't American manufacturers take the business away from them?
That argument has been presented before,
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/esoterica-tobacciana-a-history
and it is logical - I've often wondered why no other makers have got a clue and tried to make a flake similar to Stonehaven, because if they nailed it, it would fly off the shelves!
The blunt answer is, the American manufacturers simply cannot do it.

The task is beyond their dominion.
As far as I know, no American manufacturer owns a steam-jacketed press, and that's where much of the magic comes from.
Germain's is reputed to also employ some of the old workers from Sobranie, who most likely know special secret tricks for blending in the manner only the British can do.
The old British tobacco houses can never be replicated, accurately reproduced, or replaced,

and they never will,

sadly.

:crying:

 

daimyo

Lifer
May 15, 2014
1,459
4
I agree that Fayyum Kake is a tremendous English blend worthy of its reputation but I find it to be more of a flavor bomb than Penzance. If I was to relate the two to Pease blends I would say Penzance is well balanced and subtle like Westminster but Fayyum is well balanced and flavorful like Gaslight (Fayyum and Gaslight do not taste like one another but both deliver big flavor). I love it, I would recommend it but I never understood it being compared directly to Penzance. Other's taste-buds may be feeding them a different story though. I am among the unwashed masses that are waiting to try Krumble Kake.

 

mrenglish

Lifer
Dec 25, 2010
2,220
72
Columbus, Ohio
Regarding Krumble Kake and Penzance being essentially the same, I am not so sure about that. I have smoked plenty of both, aged and fresh, and to me KK does not have the latakia hit Penzance does. Maybe its just the way I remember them. :worship:

 

mrenglish

Lifer
Dec 25, 2010
2,220
72
Columbus, Ohio
One problem with expanding production would be more people would know the secrets of their manufacturing process. While probably not a big deal when demand is high, what happens to those extra staff when they are not needed any longer? I have no clue, but this could be one reason why they are not increasing production. Just a thought.
Thanks gigger, I was afraid I was losing my memory.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
Lowercase, then they can expand to increase capacity, perhaps in another country.
They do actually do that,

but not for our market.
For some reason, their Mixture No. 7 has always been extraordinarily popular in Germany, which is one of the largest markets in the world for pipe tobacco (dunno if that's still the case though), and they worked out a deal or something (I don't know the full details, not interested enough to look it up either) with the German baccymaker Planta to make some certain blends for JFG, mostly only sold in the DTM market...

http://www.cigarre24.de/pfeifentabak/pfeifentabakg/germains/index.php
The Germain factory proper ( a more modern facility) was established in 1960.

I would reckon that real estate in Jersey is astronomical, so that may be why expansion has not occurred?

St. Helier is quite a small place,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Helier
Made under ideal climatic conditions in the island of JERSEY, where the family business of J .F. GERMAIN & SON commenced manufacturing tobacco in 1820.
The experience gained by succeeding generations in the art of blending has produced the range of fine individual tobaccos available today.
The reconstructed factory is situated on the site of the original premises facing the harbour of St. Helier, from whence, 180 years ago, Jersey-built schooners sailed to many parts of the world, some returning with cargoes of leaf tobacco for Germain's factory.
SLto6YV.jpg

sailing_ship_eighteen_twenty.jpg

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
Something I forgot to mention...
Germain's is one of those companies with enough integrity to simply stop production on a certain blend if the appropriate leaf which is crucial to the blends profile may no longer be gotten, like how S. Gawith ceased production of Bracken Flake because they couldn't get the right leaf for it anymore. Sometimes it doesn't matter how popular a certain blend is, if it can no longer be made the right way, they won't make it, and that's something I applaud.
JFG tobacco also undergoes in-house aging and other assorted stuff to achieve their special distinct house note and tone, they take the pains to process in this manner because they know it will be a superior product in the end. That attention to detail and time investment has paid massive dividends for the company and I don't blame them for continuing to do it the old way, even if it may be inefficient, because it can be done no other way.
God bless J.F. Germain!

May they ever always remain rocksolid and strong standing!

:clap:

 

derfargin

Lifer
Mar 3, 2014
2,028
29
Kennesaw, GA
I was in Smokers Haven in Columbus a few months ago, when they were closing up their existing B&M site. I asked about Krumble Kake and the Our Best Blend and the guy told me that it's(for the most part) not coming back. And even if it did they're so backlogged for orders for it, newcomers wouldn't ever see a tin.
Regarding Fayyum Kake. I had the good fortune to get a tin from our good man Peck and I tried it. In my opinion, it's good, but for me it pales on comparison to Gaslight. Mostly due to the lack of nicotine. I thought our lady N would show up during the bowl, but when she does, she's really late to the party.
Penzance is ok, but again not enough Nic for me. I think Pease's Quiet Nights is just as good, if not better since I can readily procure it.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
Thanks for that input derfargin,

seems I have similar taste to yours,

I dislike mild low-nic stuff.

Glad to hear you say Gaslight is the superior blend b/c I love that stuff,

so I won't bother with the Fayyum.
I was in Smokers Haven in Columbus a few months ago, when they were closing up their existing B&M site. I asked about Krumble Kake and the Our Best Blend and the guy told me that it's(for the most part) not coming back. And even if it did they're so backlogged for orders for it, newcomers wouldn't ever see a tin.
Thanks for this info too.
Hope he can find a good spot for the relocation.

:puffy:

 

judcole

Lifer
Sep 14, 2011
7,443
38,472
Detroit
Germain's is one of those companies with enough integrity to simply stop production on a certain blend if the appropriate leaf which is crucial to the blends profile may no longer be gotten, like how S. Gawith ceased production of Bracken Flake because they couldn't get the right leaf for it anymore. Sometimes it doesn't matter how popular a certain blend is, if it can no longer be made the right way, they won't make it, and that's something I applaud.
JFG tobacco also undergoes in-house aging and other assorted stuff to achieve their special distinct house note and tone, they take the pains to process in this manner because they know it will be a superior product in the end. That attention to detail and time investment has paid massive dividends for the company and I don't blame them for continuing to do it the old way, even if it may be inefficient, because it can be done no other way.
God bless J.F. Germain!

May they ever always remain rocksolid and strong standing!
I completely agree with you. It is gratifying to see companies that act with integrity, and not merely putting the Mighty Dollar above all else. :worship: J.F. Germain. I am cherishing the few tins of Penzance I have cellared.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
No doubt Jud.
And,

of course,

:worship:

Gregory Pease must be mentioned as well,

after the warehouse fire and all the C&D Syrian lat went up in flames, some of his most beloved blends ceased to exist.
Virginia Warehouse Fire Destroys 400,000 Pounds of Tobacco
Oct 27, 2004
South Boston, VA -- Police say fire destroyed a tobacco warehouse in downtown South Boston early Tuesday. The fire consumed about 400,000 pounds of tobacco and brought in firefighters from more than 30 miles away. South Boston Police Chief GM Reed says the fire at Planter's Warehouse prompted the closure of a portion of Wilborn Avenue, the main street through downtown, for at least a day. Reed says firefighters from the county's volunteer departments, and personnel from Danville and Roxboro, North Carolina, joined the town department in fighting the blaze.
Authorities said they did not immediately know what caused the blaze.
Associated Press

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
Oh,

another thing I forgot.
Upon rereading this comment I made:

The blunt answer is, the American manufacturers simply cannot do it.

The task is beyond their dominion.
it sounded a bit pompous on my part and could be easily misinterpreted as me dissing the American blenders, and I didn't quite mean it that way.
Obviously they have the skill, but in many cases are lacking the needed industrial machinery, as well as certain leaf (exotic Orientals of yore, African stuff etc), so that's what I was getting at.
The American blenders do an excellent job of making some great British-styled English blends, but I'm just not a hardcore English smoker and find it difficult to navigate the field because there are just so many different options.
I don't even really like the term English for a lat blend, I think they should be called Russian, or Egyptian, or even Crimean, LOL, I think that back in the day, in Great Britain, lat blends were more expensive and perhaps associated with the officers club or gentlemans parlour, a baccy seen as more sophisticated and exotic --- the everyman in the street was more likely to be smoking a stout cased flake, usually with a peculiar flavouring unique to the British, and that's what I favor, St. Bruno, Condor, Highland Sliced, et al, and the American blenders hardly offer anything of that sort.
The Danish have proven to be very adept at "recreating" the old Brit stuff, but of course, they also had access to the processing method and recipes directly from the original manufacturers.
German baccy companies make some blends along those lines too, with some mighty fine stuff, but not usually equal to the Danes at matching that classic British profile.
:puffy:

Two more pence in the pond.
g2463.jpg


 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
I would love to see a hard figure on the market value of a company like J.F. Germain.

It'd be interesting.
I know the following is in a totally different league, but when JTI bought Gallaher of Ireland, the amount of money was staggering!
$1,137,000,000,000 USD
Gallaher agrees £7.5bn Japan Tobacco takeover
Dec 15, 2006
GALLAHER, the tobacco group behind Benson & Hedges, Silk Cut and Hamlet, today agreed to a £7.5 billion takeover from Japan Tobacco (JT).
The move, the biggest ever foreign takeover by a Japanese firm, will form the world's third largest tobacco company behind Marlboro maker Altria and British American Tobacco, numbers one and two respectively.
JT said the offer represented a 27 per cent premium to Gallaher's share price prior to the UK company's announcement last week that it was in discussions regarding a takeover. When debt was included, the takeover price was 9.6bn.
One analyst described the deal as "a strategy to survive", given that sales of tobacco in Japan, where JT has around 65 per cent of the market, are falling.
Over the six months to September, sales volume fell 4.7 per cent to 140bn cigarettes. Landing Gallaher, subject to regulatory and shareholder approval, would give the enlarged group an annual capacity of 600 billion cigarettes.
JT said the takeover would open up European and former Soviet nation markets where cigarette demand is picking up rather than declining.
"JT wants to boost its global market share with one big purchase," Fitch Ratings analyst Satoru Aoyama said. "We might say it is a strategy to survive."
And Marc Desmidt at Merrill Lynch Investment Managers, noted JT was getting "good growth in emerging markets" and "very strong cash flow".
JT said it was aiming to complete the acquisition in the first half of 2007 and would make Gallaher - which employs 12,000 people worldwide and is the world's fifth-biggest tobacco group - a wholly owned subsidiary.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
If C&D were to invest in a steam press, think of the plugs they could put out between them and Pease. Or even McClelland for that matter.
No doubt!
That'd be cool!
I wonder though,

maybe someone does have a steam-press?
I really can't confirm that anybody ain't got one,

I could be proven wrong.

:?:

 
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