Silly Blend Question

[AngryBeaver316]

I was having a smoke today and was looking at tobacco as I really dont have alot, only a year and some change in. And I was looking at the components and said to myslef these alot of these are basically the same. So I drummed up this potentially silly questions for the forum.

Is there really THAT much of a difference between blend that have literally the same leaf in them? I do know that flakes, plugs and such really marry the flavors and all that. But for example what's the difference between Skiff Mixture and Squadran Leader? What am I missing that would imply I need to buy two blends that have the same stuff in them?

 

[Lumbridge]

Some blends may list identical components (ex: burley, virginia, orientals) but different varieties of each and in different proportions, with different production methods and different top dressings. There's dark burley, white burley, bright VA, red VA, orange VA, dark VA, LOTS of different varieties of tobacco lumped in under the "orientals" category, et cetera. Some blends may be subtle variations of one another, but it's entirely possible for two at first seemingly identical blends from the same manufacturer to taste pretty different from one another. There are also other factors such as cut and leaf source.

 

[anotherbob]

I was having a smoke today and was looking at tobacco as I really dont have alot, only a year and some change in. And I was looking at the components and said to myslef these alot of these are basically the same. So I drummed up this potentially silly questions for the forum.

Is there really THAT much of a difference between blend that have literally the same leaf in them? I do know that flakes, plugs and such really marry the flavors and all that. But for example what's the difference between Skiff Mixture and Squadran Leader? What am I missing that would imply I need to buy two blends that have the same stuff in them?

look at the ingredients on breads. It's all the same but man there are some major differences. It's like that with tobacco.

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Even very slight differences in proportions can make a big difference. If you like to experiment, buy a few ounce samples of straight “blenders.” Try blending the components you like, playing around with different proportions. . I never understood what was going on with blends until I did that.

 

[AngryBeaver316]

I appreciate the responses, Im still learning everything. Right now I can rarely taste the difference between two tobaccos with the same components. In the back of my mind I was wondering if it was just gonna be a journey of trying everything for as long as I can smoke.

 

[kcghost]

Yeah, sorry to disappoint you nut tobaccos very frequently have the same components and their flavor will not even resemble each other.

 

[FurCoat]

In the back of my mind I was wondering if it was just gonna be a journey of trying everything for as long as I can smoke.
[/QUOTE]
The answer to that is yes. Welcome to the fun house.

 

[Old Smokey]

In the back of my mind I was wondering if it was just gonna be a journey of trying everything for as long as I can smoke.

The answer to that is yes. Welcome to the fun house.
[/QUOTE]
You mean the nut house right?

 

[proteus]

What counts is the preparation and the vintage. Some tobacco blenders buy an entire crop of a certain leaf and work off that. It's aged and "messed with" in terms of bringing out flavors. The blending methods using steam, heat, humidity and any casing or topping plays a part. Pressure as well. Typical presses putting out 50psi. My small 2 ton press on a 9 inch square plate gives me 50psi. Some use these large cast iron stacks of boxes and press each box using a screw jack and add more cast iron boxes to make a stack. That plays a part in flavor as does the temp and humidity of the workshop. Some use oak boxes and some use maple to add flavor under pressure.

Another way to look at the production process is this. Based on 2024 TTB sales data the FDA tax base yearly assessment of user fees for pipe tobacco is $29,396,860 out of $4,504,622,559 in total TTB reportable sales which is 0.65259% (0.0065259). That's the fee percent paid by pipe tobacco product manufacturers to FDA for their tobacco sales. The US alone produces about 202,000 metric tons of tobacco annually so the entire American pipe tobacco market is about 1,270 metric tons which is about 2.8M pounds. Wholesale tobacco at about $10 a pound or less give or take, for $30M or less, a large blender could buy all the pipe tobacco in America. It's a small market. And there are many large purchases made yearly. Smaller blenders have to buy from say Sutliff or MacBaren in bales from what they bought and are willing to sell. Some blenders negotiate with the farms directly.

The point is that large blenders can buy huge lots of tobacco in a given production year, which isn't that expensive relatively, and age it and blend it using methods which gives each tobacco leaf different characteristics in the same manner carrots can be roasted, grilled, boiled, peeled, seasoned, etc...its all carrots but prepared different. All of that is unique to the blender and can create unique blends which no other blender can do.

Take a full bale of tobacco about 750lbs and about 40x40x40 in size and cost about $7,500 give or take. Depends on the negotiation. When a blender makes a run of 6000 2oz tins thats a full bale of tobacco. So that's why it's usually that many tins. Everything is negotiable so deals are made depending on quantity committed to buy in a year or more. So it's fairly easy to buy large quantites and age it and create a flavor only that blender has.

Same reason Clapton and Hendrix and Santana can play the same guitar and sound different. It's all in what the artist or blender brings in terms of technique to make it all taste/ sound unique.

 

[sablebrush52]

I was having a smoke today and was looking at tobacco as I really dont have alot, only a year and some change in. And I was looking at the components and said to myslef these alot of these are basically the same. So I drummed up this potentially silly questions for the forum.

Is there really THAT much of a difference between blend that have literally the same leaf in them? I do know that flakes, plugs and such really marry the flavors and all that. But for example what's the difference between Skiff Mixture and Squadran Leader? What am I missing that would imply I need to buy two blends that have the same stuff in them?

That's a very good question. As has been explained above, quite a lot of processing goes into the final product, from planting through to your pipe. A wide arrange of techniques such as pressing, steaming, repressing, resteaming, combining the component tobaccos in different proportions, spraying with sugar and with various flavors, and on and on to create different blends.

All that said, there's a limit to how much all of this affects the flavor. Scrapple won't be turned in Petit Fillet Mignon.
Various types of Virginias, brights, oranges, reds, browns, etc will still taste like Virginias, not like Latakia. And often, a variety of blends will share a similar taste some of it due to the inherent flavors of their components and the various processes used to enhance it.

 

[FurCoat]

The answer to that is yes. Welcome to the fun house.

You mean the nut house right?
[/QUOTE]
I was trying to spare some feelings, but since we're being honest....

 

[Old Smokey]

You mean the nut house right?

I was trying to spare some feelings, but since we're being honest....
[/QUOTE]
Feelings are for sissies, bury them deep inside like a real man

 

[Searock Fan]

I was having a smoke today and was looking at tobacco as I really dont have alot, only a year and some change in. And I was looking at the components and said to myslef these alot of these are basically the same. So I drummed up this potentially silly questions for the forum.

Is there really THAT much of a difference between blend that have literally the same leaf in them? I do know that flakes, plugs and such really marry the flavors and all that. But for example what's the difference between Skiff Mixture and Squadran Leader? What am I missing that would imply I need to buy two blends that have the same stuff in them?

In answer to your question.... Oh, hell yeah!

 

[sardonicus87]

That's a very good question. As has been explained above, quite a lot of processing goes into the final product, from planting through to your pipe. A wide arrange of techniques such as pressing, steaming, repressing, resteaming, combining the component tobaccos in different proportions, spraying with sugar and with various flavors, and on and on to create different blends.

All that said, there's a limit to how much all of this affects the flavor. Scrapple won't be turned in Petit Fillet Mignon.
Various types of Virginias, brights, oranges, reds, browns, etc will still taste like Virginias, not like Latakia. And often, a variety of blends will share a similar taste some of it due to the inherent flavors of their components and the various processes used to enhance it.

Another way to think about it is like music. Play a note on a guitar (or any instrument for that matter) and there's more there than just the principle tone. There's harmonic overtones that you don't notice which color the principle tone. That's why the same 440hz A played on one guitar sounds different from another. That's also how pinch harmonics (AKA "squeelies" work)—you touch the string just enough to mute the principle tone without muting the overtone, so the high pitched overtone rings out loud.

Relating that back to tobacco, the principle flavor of a bright virginia is the same and will always taste like bright virginia, but the overtones change, which takes time to develop a sense for, since they're subtle. This would be like bright VA from one farm vs from another, where the only difference is the soil and sun conditions and maybe the growth rate of the plants. Or even just harvesting differences like one takes leaf slightly further up or down on the stalk, or takes leaf a week or two later or earlier.

And that's just one aspect changing (harvesting), but those changes are definitely super subtle.

The processing is more like tweaking the EQ on your stereo head. The music is still producing the same notes in the same order and times, but the color of those notes changes. It's still an A @ 440 Hz, but this way it's a little warmer, this way a little brighter, this way a little twangier. Or with different tweaks, the guitars have less presence and the drums end up brighter and snappier (like altering blend proportions). But no amount of studio magic or end-user tweaking will make that guitar sound like a clarinet or something.

Not that we needed more analogies and the OP seems to understand now, but this might help someone else understand how "the same components can taste different".

So everything affecting flavor, no matter how subtle or noticeable, includes: growing location/conditions, harvesting process, curing process, multiple pre-blending processing processes (like aging), blending and further processing processes (pressing, further aging, casing, topping, etc).

All points are places where flavor can become differentiated to varying degrees despite the using same components.

 

[FurCoat]

T

I was trying to spare some feelings, but since we're being honest....

Feelings are for sissies, bury them deep inside like a real man
[/QUOTE]
That's the truth.
Love your avatar by the way, reminds me of Joey Jorgensen (Slipknot) every time I see it.

 

[AngryBeaver316]

Another way to think about it is like music. Play a note on a guitar (or any instrument for that matter) and there's more there than just the principle tone. There's harmonic overtones that you don't notice which color the principle tone. That's why the same 440hz A played on one guitar sounds different from another. That's also how pinch harmonics (AKA "squeelies" work)—you touch the string just enough to mute the principle tone without muting the overtone, so the high pitched overtone rings out loud.

Relating that back to tobacco, the principle flavor of a bright virginia is the same and will always taste like bright virginia, but the overtones change, which takes time to develop a sense for, since they're subtle. This would be like bright VA from one farm vs from another, where the only difference is the soil and sun conditions and maybe the growth rate of the plants. Or even just harvesting differences like one takes leaf slightly further up or down on the stalk, or takes leaf a week or two later or earlier.

And that's just one aspect changing (harvesting), but those changes are definitely super subtle.

The processing is more like tweaking the EQ on your stereo head. The music is still producing the same notes in the same order and times, but the color of those notes changes. It's still an A @ 440 Hz, but this way it's a little warmer, this way a little brighter, this way a little twangier. Or with different tweaks, the guitars have less presence and the drums end up brighter and snappier (like altering blend proportions). But no amount of studio magic or end-user tweaking will make that guitar sound like a clarinet or something.

Not that we needed more analogies and the OP seems to understand now, but this might help someone else understand how "the same components can taste different".

So everything affecting flavor, no matter how subtle or noticeable, includes: growing location/conditions, harvesting process, curing process, multiple pre-blending processing processes (like aging), blending and further processing processes (pressing, further aging, casing, topping, etc).

All points are places where flavor can become differentiated to varying degrees despite the using same components.

Great insight.
I suppose then, at this point its to train up the ol tast sensors so that I can taste the differences

 

[Terry Lennox]

I would concentrate less on the differences between each blend and instead get a feel for the differences between blending houses. There is usually a house style. For example C&D produced Virginia flakes are quite different vs those produced in Germany by K&K (or Kopp as it's now known), or STG in Denmark. It helps to get a sense of which house style you prefer. Then go deeper on that maker's range.

If you watch the Mystery Tobacco Review videos by the Smoking Pipes crew you will see that one of the ways they identify mystery blends is to narrow it down by house style.

 

[vosBghos]

Proportions and what kind of leaf exactly , when a common English says Orientals, Virginias , Latakia , I mean yes those are families and all but which Orientals, Virginias, and now a days with Latakia coming from new sources which Latakia? There are so many varieties and casing combinations without even starting in the topping department with say English Crossovers.

I would say imparticular with the Squadron Leader and Skiff they are two totally different blends pretty sure Skiff has Maryland in it wich sets it apart from many oriental forward english/balkan blends immediately upon first puff.