It's pointless to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Walk away and wait for the "going out of business" sale.
Should I Hit This Guy?
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What really confounds me is why one would enter into a business venture that they most obviously know nothing about? Imagine someone entering this store to check it out who has been a pipe smoker for twenty or thirty plus years and subjected, or perhaps better put, amused at hearing such laughable and ignorant BS. Other than that, there is certainly no sense in arguing with the guy, much less trying to teach him what he should have damn well known in the first place before his new business venture is a tad ridiculous.
I'm betting that he is a cigar guy. Down here in New Orleans most tobacconists only sell cigars and know next to nothing about pipes. If you can, encourage him to venture over to this site. I think it's at least good that he's interested in expanding his business, he just need some guidance.
If he's your favorite B&M's competition let his business die. This is capitalism. He bought a store, he didn't have to, he's going out of his way to be a moron about pipes, so his sale skills suck, plus he sounds arrogant. Let it die, this 'Merica were talking about.
Does he at least know cigars or whatever else he sells? If not, he's probably doomed anyway. At least he's aware of Tim West.
Mike S.
Mike S.
Here's a quote from J.H. Lowe's web site, "Tim West has been a Briar Pipemaker and a Pipe Repairman since 1975. He made his first pipe in 1967."
Clearly, this chap doesn't know very much about pipes. I suspect that when he uses the word "briar," in his mind that refers to corncobs. My advice: if you can provide him with a bit of education, and point them in the right direction, he might learn enough to manage his business well, and if that occurs, You and other potential customers will be the beneficiaries of his newfound education.
He probably bought the shop because she thought it was a simple retailing thing, in which the owner didn't know or have to know very much about his product, but just pretend that he did. Recently in our small Connecticut town, a fellow opened a specialty coffee shop, and called me in to train his people and tune his machines. He had a $17,000 4-group La Cimbali, truly a honey of a machine. I tuned it so that was consistently dispensing perfect shots, and told him to call me in preferably once a week but not less than once a month to keep the machines tuned. He never called me in again. When training his people, I asked them "how many of you are passionate about coffee?" Not a single hand went up. Then I said: "how many of you drink coffee?" One hand went up. I put them through their paces training them on various coffee brewing techniques, i.e. French press, V – 60, Chemex, etc., and after I finished I took the owner aside for a private chat. I explained the problems he had at the outset, and how this was likely to tend, and what he might do to help himself out. His response: "why? A coffee shop is just a glorified lemonade stand." I shook my head and left. I came in a few times to sample the coffee, but within two weeks it had deteriorated so badly that I quit coming in. In less than a year he closed his doors. Here's the problem: if you're in retailing and you think your customers are idiots, they will eventually prove themselves to be smarter than you are.
The moral of the story: if the owner of your local B&M thinks that his customers are idiots, he won't stay in business long, because excellent pipes and tobacco's and associated paraphernalia can be had online for a very good price, and these places have experts to advise you on your purchase. Your B & M owner has to be in the same league if he wants to survive.
He probably bought the shop because she thought it was a simple retailing thing, in which the owner didn't know or have to know very much about his product, but just pretend that he did. Recently in our small Connecticut town, a fellow opened a specialty coffee shop, and called me in to train his people and tune his machines. He had a $17,000 4-group La Cimbali, truly a honey of a machine. I tuned it so that was consistently dispensing perfect shots, and told him to call me in preferably once a week but not less than once a month to keep the machines tuned. He never called me in again. When training his people, I asked them "how many of you are passionate about coffee?" Not a single hand went up. Then I said: "how many of you drink coffee?" One hand went up. I put them through their paces training them on various coffee brewing techniques, i.e. French press, V – 60, Chemex, etc., and after I finished I took the owner aside for a private chat. I explained the problems he had at the outset, and how this was likely to tend, and what he might do to help himself out. His response: "why? A coffee shop is just a glorified lemonade stand." I shook my head and left. I came in a few times to sample the coffee, but within two weeks it had deteriorated so badly that I quit coming in. In less than a year he closed his doors. Here's the problem: if you're in retailing and you think your customers are idiots, they will eventually prove themselves to be smarter than you are.
The moral of the story: if the owner of your local B&M thinks that his customers are idiots, he won't stay in business long, because excellent pipes and tobacco's and associated paraphernalia can be had online for a very good price, and these places have experts to advise you on your purchase. Your B & M owner has to be in the same league if he wants to survive.
They also need to be somewhat competitive with online stores. I had been buying Orlik Golden Slice from P&C for $11.90 a 3.5 oz tin. I asked the local B&M if he could get it for me since I'd like to do business locally. So he got me 2 tins and the price was $22.50 each. I went ahead and bought them since he ordered for me. I will go in and have a talk with him about this. I don't expect for him to sell for $11.90 since if I ordered 2 from P&C there would be shipping cost. But $10 a tin more is ridiculous. These kinds of businesses are very competitive so if you want to survive you have to be competitive also. He's one of the ones that want tobacco sales outlawed online. Maybe I should just not do business with him but he's the only game in town.
Nope Parker, 11.90 is too close to the wholesale price for a B&M to charge. A B&M has way more overhead than most online venues and taxes. Having everyone in my family owning retail, I can tell you that tippling the price is common, just to keep the lights on. $22.50 is cheap. And, $11.90 is too damn close to wholesale with very little profit. This comes up so often that it's very apparent that online venues are spoiling the consumers, by giving us such low prices that we've come to think that it's "normal."
Online sells in volume. Throw it in a box and get it shipped. That is way so much cheaper than having to upkeep an actual store.
Online sells in volume. Throw it in a box and get it shipped. That is way so much cheaper than having to upkeep an actual store.
I have run into scenarios like this at several shops over the years. Tobacco shops, guns shops, car dealerships and various others. Most of the time the salesperson thinks that because I am younger I must not know what I am talking about. I see this all the time at guns shops, it seems as if you don't know the answer you make it up rather than find out and give the correct information. These are the types of shops I go into once or maybe twice and never visit again. They also usually gain a quick reputation with the local customers.
ravkesef, great post and thanks for sharing your experience. It's really cool you did all that for the guy, just sucks he was a flipping MORON and had his head up his ass and didn't listen to you. It's sad how many idiots open a retail business lacking the passion, knowledge and determination needed to succeed.
Parker, in response to your post, i think any b&m, tobacco or not, is ignorant and living in a fantasy land if they don't acknowledge the internet and the insanely huge online market. My local b&m DOES acknowledge this, and as a result, has fair and decently competitive prices. I know just about every employee that works there and they have said point blank, "hey if you can get a killer deal online for xxxx, go for it, i'd do the same!". But still, they know as well as the customer does that convenience and having the product in hand same day beats possibly paying shipping and waiting for days to enjoy the product. I like to think of myself as a very rational and logical person. Therefore, i think it is rational and logical to buy AT LEAST a tin or two of tobacco, a couple cigars, etc. every time i go in and enjoy their leather chairs, flatscreens, and space to smoke and make friends and have good conversations with friends already made.
That said, if they lost their marbles and started charging prices like you mentioned, i would never come back and either find another b&m, or stick to strictly online purchasing. All of this seems really obvious and should be common sense, but it is underestimated as to how many people lack these traits and a basic ability to think and use their brain. New tobacco store dunce exemplifies this type of person.
Parker, in response to your post, i think any b&m, tobacco or not, is ignorant and living in a fantasy land if they don't acknowledge the internet and the insanely huge online market. My local b&m DOES acknowledge this, and as a result, has fair and decently competitive prices. I know just about every employee that works there and they have said point blank, "hey if you can get a killer deal online for xxxx, go for it, i'd do the same!". But still, they know as well as the customer does that convenience and having the product in hand same day beats possibly paying shipping and waiting for days to enjoy the product. I like to think of myself as a very rational and logical person. Therefore, i think it is rational and logical to buy AT LEAST a tin or two of tobacco, a couple cigars, etc. every time i go in and enjoy their leather chairs, flatscreens, and space to smoke and make friends and have good conversations with friends already made.
That said, if they lost their marbles and started charging prices like you mentioned, i would never come back and either find another b&m, or stick to strictly online purchasing. All of this seems really obvious and should be common sense, but it is underestimated as to how many people lack these traits and a basic ability to think and use their brain. New tobacco store dunce exemplifies this type of person.
Cosmic is right on target--the expense of running a B&M is significant, and there's no way your local owner can sell at anywhere near the online price. That being the case, he's got to be able to sell his merchandise along with a great deal of personal knowledge about his product, and service to his customer. If he tries to operate his shop by insisting that his pipes are made out of Wood not briar, then he clearly doesn't know what it is he's selling, and in that case, he won't be able to offer anything approaching the service that his customers will need. When that occurs, we, the customer base, shop for our pipes and tobaccos online, because we know that we can get the service and advice we need from people who know what they're talking about. And, when we need our pipes serviced, we'll look for a chap online who can repair, and/or do the necessary work to restore our pipes to tiptop condition. There isn't a brick and mortar pipe shop worthy of the name anywhere in Connecticut, so I might have to go as far afield as Boston. Ehrlich is gone, Leavitt and Peirce is a pale shadow of its former self, and the people who work there know nothing whatsoever about pipes and tobacco. I go into Peretti's, and now I'm in a real pipe shop, where the tobaccos are blended in the back room, where the crew know what they're talking about. It's truly a pipe shop as we used to know them, and has been doing business there for about a century and a half. The only problem is, it's a 2 hour drive from my home.
So your local B&M fellow wants to ban Internet sales of tobacco. Why? So that he can sell tobacco that he knows nothing about?p
So your local B&M fellow wants to ban Internet sales of tobacco. Why? So that he can sell tobacco that he knows nothing about?p
cosmic, I work in a somewhat retail environment and we have to be competitive with online competitors. I will not pay $22.50 when I can get it cheaper, he'll just have to go out of business or loose mine anyway. Right or wrong that's the way the business world is these days and you either learn to be competitive in it or loose out. I would pay him 17.50 for it from him but $22.50 is ridiculous IMO.
In my old cigarette smoking days, I'd say he would be making a dental appointment real soon :rofl:
Now being a grampa in training, I wouldn't even waste my breath trying to explain to him all his incorrect information let alone waste the time going to his shop again.
Now being a grampa in training, I wouldn't even waste my breath trying to explain to him all his incorrect information let alone waste the time going to his shop again.
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