Sexism and Pipes?

[blindmansleeps]

So, this is my first post, here. I'm a fairly new pipe smoker of a few months. These forums have been very helpful in my pursuit of the perfect puff.
I've noticed something in the pipe-smoking community, though, that unsettles me a bit. I understand that pipe smoking is something of a tradition, and gives off a sense of nostalgia for the past. But, why is there a good deal of sexism in the community? It's as if we still find smoking a pipe to represent hyper-masculinity vis-a-vis Popeye. Just listen to the ad for Molto Dolce which played in last week's Pipes Magazine Radio show. I certainly don't have that kind of hypermasculine experience when smoking a pipe, and it's certainly not the reason why I smoke a pipe.
Has anyone else picked up on this tendency? It's really entirely unnecessary to the enjoyment of a good smoke, but it seems to permeate the pipe-smoking community just about everywhere I look.

 

[yaddy306]

but it seems to permeate the pipe-smoking community just about everywhere I look.

Where else have you looked, besides the Molto Dolce ad?

That's a pretty broad accusation.

 

[Perique]

Frankly, I don't think many of us think in your politically correct terms, or about our "masculinity", when smoking a pipe. We just enjoy the pipe.
Not really a great first post. Nobody here has time for "sexism" or any other bullshit. Anytime someone throws out a word like "sexism", one can glean quite a bit about the posters mindset and worldview.
We enjoy this forum as a place to discuss pipes, tobacco, and miscellany in a friendly environment. Maybe you should take your 'activism' to a forum that focuses on such things.
Gender has never crossed my mind when smoking a pipe.

 

[Perique]

"It's really entirely unnecessary to the enjoyment of a good smoke, but it seems to permeate the pipe-smoking community just about everywhere I look."
And by the way, this statement is complete bullshit. Be gone, troll.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

First, I think that Kevin tries his hardest to make the ads appeal to a broad audience and be creative and entertaining, but as anyone who works in a creative field knows, sometimes with your best effort you can still piss off someone without knowing.
My definition of sexism is that it means that you display a belief that opposite sex is somehow less deserving or beneath your own in some way. Yes the ad played with sexual innuendos, but I didn't get the message that he was saying that women were somehow beneath men in quality in any way. Yes, sex was the idea behind the ad, but isn't sex in some way woven into just about everything. The woman ran off with his pipe, because she loved thee taste (or whatever feeling the blend gave her). To say that women are not sexual beings just as men are is silly. The ad made no mention that women were "merely" playthings or deserved less pay or should listen to what a man says. Just because the ad was heavily laden with innuendo does not automatically make it sexist.
Now, if you just don't like people talking about sex or using it to sell a product is one thing, but to call it "sexist" is a heavy judgement call. And, it is completely subjective. How about defining your definition of sexism and pointing out how the ad fits that definition before throwing rocks at people trying their best to meet the needs of our community.

 

[blindmansleeps]

Wow. I didn't expect such an emotional and strong response. Simply was wondering if anyone else has noticed the trend. A simple, "No, I haven't noticed a trend." would do, Perique. As far as what you think you've gleaned from my character out of a single post, I don't think in such narrow terms. If apparently being a little taken aback by some derogatory remarks while being introduced into the pipe smoking community makes my mind obsessed with "political correctness," then I think you've made quite a few ungrounded assumptions, man.
Perhaps I overspoke with the phrase "everywhere." But, I have sensed it quite a bit. In a number of videos throughout YouTube. On TobaccoReviews, the occasional joke about "finding a different wife if she doesn't like the smell of your tobacco." Etc. Granted, as a pipesmoker of a few months, I haven't exactly run the social circles of the community. But seeing how I've run into quite a few instances of it in my first few months of exploration, at the very least you can understand why I'd be curious.
But really, a simple, "I haven't noticed that trend." or "That's surely not the norm." would have sufficed.

 

[blindmansleeps]

Cosmic,
I was actually kind of struck more by the hyper-masculinity than I was the woman clearly going over the top with sexual innuendo. I thought that was just being humorous.
I understand it's subjective. (Why do I get the idea I'm going to have to talk people down from assuming I'm the PC police?)

 

[Perique]

"Perhaps I overspoke with the phrase "everywhere." "
"I haven't exactly run the social circles of the community."
----------------------------
Which is why this was a first post in very poor form. Perhaps you should spend some more time within the pipesmoking community before criticizing it, let alone suggesting it's something as absurd as "sexist".

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Maybe "sexist" is the wrong word to use. Maybe it deserves a little more searching for a better word. "Provocative" comes to mind.
As for hyper masculine, LOLOLOLOL, I think the guys was more of a schmuck than a hyper-masculine guy who only knows sports and big guns. Maybe you can define hyper-masculine for us also?

 

[blindmansleeps]

Cosmic, and perhaps my definition of sexism is a bit more broad. As someone who studies the social sciences, and particularly the way language is used, sometimes I think sexism, which can often simply involve representing a person only in terms of their gender (and the extreme stereotype of a gender role), permeates our language without our awareness.
Which is important, here, for those who think I'm looking down my nose. I'm not. I'm sure I often unintentionally do similar things. Only, I do try to pay much more attention to my language when I'm in the public sphere, or if I were making advertisements, teaching a class, etc.

 

[blindmansleeps]

Lol. True. Maybe more of a schmuck. Just kind of reminded me of a Mad Men kind of hyper-masculinity. Which, of course, emphasizes your point. Hyper-masculinity is not only individually subjective, but socially subjective. Though, I don't think the presence subjectivity ends the discussion.

 

[Perique]

Blind, it's sometimes difficult to get a good read on someone simply from an Internet forum. Sometimes the nature of this medium accentuates stereotypes. Sometimes there is projection. Often there is misunderstanding.
All of that said, you are coming across as an asshole. Maybe involve yourself in some threads about pipes and pipe tobacco. Attend a few pipe shows or club meetings. Then come back and enlighten us as to the "social sciences" and your "broad" definition of sexism. Until then, you'll forgive some of us from simply finding you a troll.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

LOL, now this is just getting silly. I saw no correlation between the ad and Mad Men. I think that you are projecting some things onto the ad that just aren't there. Sure, the women could have been a brain surgeon who just liked the smell of the ad, the end, but that is not how the world works. If we all look hard enough we will find things we can disagree with, but my point is that calling the ad "sexist" is a hard call. I would take that serious, and you'll have to do better than your doing to convince me. I think your stretching a bit here. IMO.
It's ok to just not like the ad. I don't like a lot of ads. But, calling the ad out as sexist is a heavy punch and you'd better be able to back it up.

 

[anglesey]

I wouldnt say the two are even vaguely comparable. It's such a niche 'market' (if I may use that term) that it's really neither here nor there. In todays world, both men and women are seen as equally 'weird' if they walk down the street smoking a pipe. I'm not bothered if a woman smokes a pipe, I've known plenty of men who smoke a pipe as an irritating affectation, and plenty of women who take it as seriously as one can.
As for cosmic's comment on the molto dolce ad, and the sexualisation of everything, I must completely agree. I find it offensive and crass that sex is brought into everything, but this doesn't necessarily mean that we're all sitting here sneering and leering at women during adverts.

 

[tuold]

I don't think sexism "permeates" community by any stretch, but it does come up now and then. We have that "Pipe Babes" tab up there without a corresponding "Pipe Jocks", so that's one example. But look, it's mostly guys here with a few welcome exceptions. If the membership tipped to the distaff side by a larger percentage you would probably begin to see a change in tone. That probably won't happen. It would mean a 100% increase in pipe sales, so we should probably wish it would happen.
As for myself, I'm more of a geezer pipe smoking nerd. Overt sexuality makes me embarrassed and uneasy, so the Molto Dolce ad was annoying. I think most of us are into pipes because it's a relaxing and interesting hobby, not because we are trying to promote some sort of image.

 

[yaddy306]

Hmm...

 

[blindmansleeps]

Cosmic, I didn't imply that there was a direct link between Mad Men and the ad at all, but only the kind of hypermasculine stereotype. Which is that kind of a odd ingredient of nostalgia I've picked up on, as well.
I didn't say that I required the woman to be a brain surgeon, either. And gave nothing to suggest that.
Apparently, a guy can't use the word "sexism" without being forced to untether himself from a thousand unnecessary associations and statements. Apparently, it's like wearing a target in this kind of forum. Note taken.
But, I will say that before you dismiss the notion that sexist statements can unintentionally creep through our language as being silly, I'd recommend a little reading up on linguistic analysis, analysis that has been around for decades.

 

[Perique]

Be. Gone. Non-contributing. Troll.
Mods. Help.

 

[blindmansleeps]

Tuold, I entirely agree. And that was the exact kind of response I was asking for before I got the angry reaction above. It's marginal, then. And that's all I wanted to know.

 

[blindmansleeps]

Perique, how on earth have I trolled, man? Your reaction is really confusing to me.