Sell me a Dunhill.

[cosmicfolklore]

Cosmic, Are you saying Dunhill farms to Savinelli? If so, what makes you think so?

Ah, sorry, I missed this question. I don't always go back to all of my posts to check, but I enjoyed re-reading this one this morning. It used to be quite bantered about that Dunhills were just Savinellis in the past. Maybe the old guard has turned over to new posters. But, it was proposed that Dunhill farms out all of their production, because several someones had proposed that Dunhill only has a staff of less than a handful of people to handle their whole industry. True or false? I have no idea people just post stuff on here, maybe in an ancient thread they had sited some valid reference.

I have had in my conversation with a guy vending Dunhills that they were Savinellis, which was not the first time I heard this. Savinelli is one of the largest pipe companies in the world, and one of the best, so it makes sense. Dunnies look just like Savinellis to me. The guy also said that Dunhill is very,very strict about their QC, and rejects 90% of the pipes submitted to them.
Phhht, I have no idea. There is much rumor and innuendo in this hobby. I don't put those things down, as rumor and innuendo are much more fun that some rep coming on here to squelch some good fun. I don't care much for facts, ha ha. But, I also don't have a beef against Dunhills. I have two, and they neither amaze nor disgust me.
It does amaze me that no one else mentioned the White Spot Guarantee. It truly is what made the Dunnie above the rest. Engineering? phhht, what does that even mean? Better? Quality? What do these terms even mean? But, that Dunhill would offer a Guarantee on their pipes has made them amazing over the years, any dealer of Dunhills has to honor it. Just return the pipe. No other pipe offers this, and it means that they stand behind their pipes and their QC enough that they will refund to any established Dunhill dealer what they pay in return of one of their pipes. MLC had a post earlier in the year about making P&C honor the White Spot, and it turned out that P&C had long forgotten this promise, because it had been so long since someone had returned a Dunhill. That says something in and of itself.
Does it matter if they farmed them out to Savinelli? As long as it passed Dunhill's strict QC? Not to me. Are Dunhills better than other pipes? Not necessarily, but your chances of getting a pipe with a flaw are quite fairly diminished, IMO, by the White Spot Guarantee and the QC that goes before it.
Is anyone impressed with a Dunnie? outside of other pipe smokers, especially ones who appreciate the history of this pipe, not really. I love to look at Dunnies, they are quite beautiful pipes.

Will you get a better smoke? It really depends on your skills and what you bring to the pipe.

Are they worth the money? That is between you and your wallet. To someone who can only afford a corncob and OTC tobaccos, probably not. But, as said time and time again, this is a hobby that anyone at any level of income can enjoy.
Are Dunnies farmed out? Would Dunhill admit to it? Would they lie? I don't think anyone would (should) believe anything read online at face value. This is one of the reasons I don't care much to hear from tobacconist, company owners, or artisans on forums. History has shown that people can lie. With anyone being able to make a profile saying they are Alfred Dunhill himself, or the owner of Whatsit Tobaccos, these folks could just as easily make fools out of us one way or another.

Just as you can't take anything I say, or someone else says at face value... what if I said that I visited the factory, and they showed me boxes from Savinelli and told me first hand... Nope, some things are better left to lore and mythos. If some scientist said they could "prove" God was not real, it wouldn't affect how many people feel about religion, one way or another, so...
there you go... I hope I answered your question.

 

[davet]

And they all talk, of course. Tell stories, if you listen very carefully.

:clap:

 

[sablebrush52]

It does amaze me that no one else mentioned the White Spot Guarantee. It truly is what made the Dunnie above the rest. Engineering? phhht, what does that even mean? Better? Quality? What do these terms even mean? But, that Dunhill would offer a Guarantee on their pipes has made them amazing over the years, any dealer of Dunhills has to honor it. Just return the pipe. No other pipe offers this, and it means that they stand behind their pipes and their QC enough that they will refund to any established Dunhill dealer what they pay in return of one of their pipes. MLC had a post earlier in the year about making P&C honor the White Spot, and it turned out that P&C had long forgotten this promise, because it had been so long since someone had returned a Dunhill. That says something in and of itself.

Dunhill actually offered less of a guarantee than their competitors. Barling, for example offered a two year guarantee, as did Comoy and others. I always thought it a hoot that Dunhill's display of less faith in their product and the extent that they went to to record the dates of their pipes, turned out to make them the darling of collectors everywhere.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Interesting, so Barling will pay back a retailer that sells them, for taking in a return? I've never heard of anyone but Dunhill doing this. Most pipes sales depend on whatever the retailer's policy is, but Dunhills override the retailers and makes the company agree to this before they can distribute. To distribute a Dunhill means that you "have" to take the return, and Dunhill pays the retailer back. Being in retail, I have never heard of any other product doing this without a fight. In fact, I hate most watch companies because they are such asshats about paying the retailers back when taking in a defective product.

But, I had no idea that other pipe companies had done something like this.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

...Then there you go, there's really no reason to buy a Dunhill. ::

 

[neverbend]

Dunhill actually offered less of a guarantee than their competitors. Barling, for example offered a two year guarantee, as did Comoy and others. I always thought it a hoot that Dunhill's display of less faith in their product and the extent that they went to to record the dates of their pipes, turned out to make them the darling of collectors everywhere.

Hi Jesse,
Glad that I saw your response before I posted. Saved me some writing. I know that you're aware of this but post Family Era, Barling's warranty periods changed a few times and were as low as 9 months (odd).

____________________________________________________________________________
Through the early 1990s, I didn't know of a single company that didn't offer a warranty, either specific and accompanying the pipe (usually an insert card), or implied as a year that tobacconists and (I assumed) customers knew. Invariably the warranties only covered the bowl and more specifically, burn-outs. If a customer bit or broke a stem, sat/stepped on their pipe, cracked the shank, etc., that wasn't covered by warranty.

The 'White Spot' Guarantee: - A new pipe given if any fault develops within Twelve Months. A Pipe so given cannot be again exchanged."

Most burn-outs happen to a small set of smokers so companies had a policy of one replacement and would mark the replaced pipe; Charatan "X" and Barling "R".
What about good customers that bought a lemon? Most kept them but some loaded the pipe with shag, light it and held it out the window of a car. Better in a convertible. Some used lighter fluid.
James Upshall always had an unconditional, lifetime burn-out warranty on the original pipe. Bring in your burned-out pipe to any dealer in the world for exchange. Ken Barnes was horrified when I showed him a pair of pipes (same customer) that had been incinerated - lighter fluid style. We instituted a Satisfaction Warrantee included smoking satisfaction (but excluded stems). Nothing written, just passed on to our dealers.
Across all our lines we never had many burn-outs, perhaps 1 in 400 (~20-25 a year for Upshall). That number dropped to ~5 a year with ~15 satisfaction replacements. We told dealers to use their discretion with the Satisfaction Warranty and we extended it to other lines, Ser Jacopo and Radice. The integrity of the dealers and (almost all) of the customers made this policy a success and instead of immolated hulks I own a few of the returns that I still treasure.
from the Pipedia Dunhill page:

In 1904 Alfred invented the “Windshield Pipe,” hoping to combat some of the difficulties a smoker would face while driving.

Perhaps Dunhill implemented their warranty to assure customers that they could smoke in their car but I’d bet that at least one dork still used lighter fluid.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Across all our lines we never had many burn-outs, perhaps 1 in 400

What did you mean by "our"? Are you representing a company?

 

[neverbend]

Interesting, so Barling will pay back a retailer that sells them, for taking in a return? I've never heard of anyone but Dunhill doing this. Most pipes sales depend on whatever the retailer's policy is, but Dunhills override the retailers and makes the company agree to this before they can distribute. To distribute a Dunhill means that you "have" to take the return, and Dunhill pays the retailer back. Being in retail, I have never heard of any other product doing this without a fight. In fact, I hate most watch companies because they are such asshats about paying the retailers back when taking in a defective product.

But, I had no idea that other pipe companies had done something like this.

Hi Mike,
Dunhill wanted to see the burned-out pipe, so it was returned to them or shown to their rep and they would issue a replacement, marked and usually not a choice piece. I believe Charatan (Reuben era), Barling (Family Era) and others may have operated the same way, especially if they wanted to mark the replacement.
Fast forward to 1980 and dealers would routinely replace the pipe for the customer and then give the rep the burn-out and their account would be credited or a replacement given by the rep (again, not choice pipes). Dunhill still wanted them returned but it wasn’t always done this way.
With the Satisfaction Guarantee I was often consulted, in person or by phone, about the replacement, so that I could understand the customer’s dissatisfaction. Sometimes I’d ask them to give the pipe another try, and I believe that most did, but I’d authorize the return in case they still didn’t like it and they’d get full store credit toward any merchandise they wanted.
In 1985, John (customer) bought a Ser Jacopo L2 Maxima (smooth) from one of my dealers in the Midwest, that was exactly what he liked, but after a few smokes he wasn’t satisfied. I made a sales call to the store and allowed John to return the pipe, but knowing his preferences I admonished him that he’d be sorry and he used his credit to buy a nearly identical pipe.
A few years later I was in the same store and when John saw the L2 in my mouth, (he didn’t recognize it), he begged me to trade it to him. I was known to trade almost any pipe but I wasn’t going to part with this L2. Now, 30 years later, I’ve smoked this pipe close to a thousand times, I call it ‘The Beast’ and it’s an uber-elite smoker.

 

[neverbend]

What did you mean by "our"? Are you representing a company?

I was in the pipe business for a bit. I did represented our brands (only) in stores (when possible) and at the RTDA. I left the business in 1992.

 

[georged]

George, that GBD is amazing. Who is Jacques Craen?

He's one of the most senior and accomplished French pipe guys on the production side. Has roots back to when St. Claude, France was Planet Earth's ground zero for pipe making (imagine an entire town that did almost nothing else).
He and his son attend the Chicago show regularly. That's where I showed him the pipe. He actually knew the "new old stock" batch it had come from, and in which factory's basement the discovery was made.

 

[seacaptain]

Dunhill pipes don't burn out. But there was one time when this happened.

 

[buroak]

I'll try to remember to bring it.
In the meantime here are some pics. (Yes, it was unsmoked when found. [:D] )

Come to think of it, your pipe has better odds of making a meeting than I do. I will just enjoy the photos, as that is a svelte cutty.

 

[sablebrush52]

I was in the pipe business for a bit. I did represented our brands (only) in stores (when possible) and at the RTDA. I left the business in 1992.

Nice bit of understatement...

"If you gotta ask... maybe "bitchin'" is outta your price range. I have a cute barling that might be better for a guy like you."

And you'll get a far superior pipe for the money.

 

[disinformatique]

If you need to be "sold" a Dunhill pipe. You are not ready to own one.

 

[crusader]

Thanks to Cosmic for the reply. As a warranty Manager for one of the more successful r.v. Dealerships in the country I understand the business all to well especially to guarantee's and know it is only as good as who makes the guarantee. With that said, I will still probably buys one, and after hearing Zachs podcast and looking at his web site, there is a Dublin with my name on it

 

[seacaptain]

You can use your Dunhill pipe for admission into Buckingham Palace.

 

[buroak]

So, Crusader, are you planning to buy a new or estate Dunhill?

 

[didimauw]

My white dot pipe, is a spade ♠ ♠

 

[foggymountain]

Dunhill does not sell like that. They do not try to convince you that their item is better.

 

[iamn8]

Enough chit chat... you want this stupid Dunhill or not?