Sasieni Question

[tschiraldi]

Okay, as many of you well know, I have a love for old Sasieni pipes. A friend of mine showed me one he had just picked up. It is a One Dot complete with fish logo, correct patent number, and all other correct markings. The stem is definitely original and the button, slot and tenon are right. So, what's the question? It's a sandblast. Others on here have claimed Dunhill had a Patent on sandblast at the time and have dismissed these as fakes, but I'm now wondering... I have seen 2 or 3 other sandblasted One Dots now. Dunhill also had a patent on the single dot, but that didn't stop old Joel from doing it anyway, until forced to, and Joel Sasieni was the shop manager at Dunhill before starting Sasieni, so he would certainly have known the process. Is it possible Sasieni DID make a few One Dot sanblasts? Anyone have Greg Pease's contact info?

 

[tschiraldi]

I should also add, the pipe is a perfect "Victoria" shape!

 

[tschiraldi]

Seriously? With all the collective knowledge here, somebody has an answer, or at least an educated opinion!

 

[captainsousie]

Well, from the most educated pipe scholar to the least knowledgeable hack, we will ask you for the same thing...pictures. No pics means wild speculation. Crappy pics means some educated guesses. Great pics including all of what you just claimed means a good chance of getting the info you want.

 

[ChuckMijo]

I am by no means an expert on Sasieni. Hopefully others will chime
In. It’s my understanding that they didn’t have sandblasted pipes back then. There was just a thread on here a few weeks ago about one. With that pipe there were lots of red flags. Maybe there is few fakes that are being passed, or maybe they did make them. Idk . Is the tenon stepped? And pictures absolutely help.’

 

[sablebrush52]

Okay, as many of you well know, I have a love for old Sasieni pipes. A friend of mine showed me one he had just picked up. It is a One Dot complete with fish logo, correct patent number, and all other correct markings. The stem is definitely original and the button, slot and tenon are right. So, what's the question? It's a sandblast. Others on here have claimed Dunhill had a Patent on sandblast at the time and have dismissed these as fakes, but I'm now wondering... I have seen 2 or 3 other sandblasted One Dots now. Dunhill also had a patent on the single dot, but that didn't stop old Joel from doing it anyway, until forced to, and Joel Sasieni was the shop manager at Dunhill before starting Sasieni, so he would certainly have known the process. Is it possible Sasieni DID make a few One Dot sanblasts? Anyone have Greg Pease's contact info?

I had a discussion about this with Jon Guss and Tad Gage a few weeks back regarding a one dot with a sandblast that was posted here. The two things that made me a bit suspicious were the sandblast and the model number, which was incorrect. The pipe in question was more of a Grosvenor or Danzey shape, but the model number was for a Victoria. Jon and Tad thought that a fake was unlikely because there wouldn't be enough money involved to warrant the effort, but they couldn't explain the incorrect model number. BTW, I traced that model number through my various Sasieni catalogs just in case the number had been reassigned, but it hadn't been reassigned. I also looked at two Sasieni one dots on a Japanese pipe site that was referenced in that post and they also had incorrect model numbers.
All of these "suspicious" one dots were sold from Italian sellers.

 

[tschiraldi]

Well, from the most educated pipe scholar to the least knowledgeable hack, we will ask you for the same thing...pictures. No pics means wild speculation. Crappy pics means some educated guesses. Great pics including all of what you just claimed means a good chance of getting the info you want.

I don't have the pipe. I know Sasieni pipes well enough to know everything else is right. I just question whether or not they may had, indeed, sandblasted any One Dots.

 

[tschiraldi]

I am by no means an expert on Sasieni. Hopefully others will chime
In. It’s my understanding that they didn’t have sandblasted pipes back then. There was just a thread on here a few weeks ago about one. With that pipe there were lots of red flags. Maybe there is few fakes that are being passed, or maybe they did make them. Idk . Is the tenon stepped? And pictures absolutely help.’

No stepped tenon. Everything lines up other than the sandblasting.

 

[tschiraldi]

I had a discussion about this with Jon Guss and Tad Gage a few weeks back regarding a one dot with a sandblast that was posted here. The two things that made me a bit suspicious were the sandblast and the model number, which was incorrect. The pipe in question was more of a Grosvenor or Danzey shape, but the model number was for a Victoria. Jon and Tad thought that a fake was unlikely because there wouldn't be enough money involved to warrant the effort, but they couldn't explain the incorrect model number. BTW, I traced that model number through my various Sasieni catalogs just in case the number had been reassigned, but it hadn't been reassigned. I also looked at two Sasieni one dots on a Japanese pipe site that was referenced in that post and they also had incorrect model numbers.
All of these "suspicious" one dots were sold from Italian sellers.

I remember that pipe. Many issues. This one doesn't have any except for the sandblasting. The pipe cant be sold due to a very fine hairline crack running the entire length of the front of the outside of the bowl. Again, everything is correct other than it's a sandblast.

 

[ChuckMijo]

The only advice I can offer my friend is I would not purchase one until more evidence comes forth as to their authenticity. Too many red flags .

 

[tschiraldi]

The only advice I can offer my friend is I would not purchase one until more evidence comes forth as to their authenticity. Too many red flags .

Yeah, the pipe is not for sale. It has a crack on the bowl. This is the 1st one I've seen that makes me rethink Sasieni maybe sandblasting earlier than I thought.

 

[Manfred65]

Sorry for intruding., but, maybe, I can contribute to the theme and, at the same time, get some opinion.
I have owned several Sasieni. One, four, eight dots, pre and post WWII.
Well, I'd very much like to submit all of you the attached pictures. They refer to a One Dot Sasieni Sandblast I recently bought.
I wanted it, first of all, because I love it. And that's a point.
It's brand new, despite its supposed age - another point.
According to many of you, the lacking patent number and the sandblasting - in relation to the old, fishtail logo, might us conclude about a fake.
In my opinion, the pipe is genuine: as far as I know, patent pipes were dedicated to the US market: the one dot production went on through several ears in Europe (no patent).
Last, but not least: despite their value, Sasienis are definitely underrated pipes, at least in Europe and especially here, in Italy. So, where's the interest in counterfeiting them?
What's your point?
Thanks indeed

 

[dmcmtk]

...especially here, in Italy. So, where's the interest in counterfeiting them?

That tells me everything I need to know. Unfortunately, a lot of faked Sasieni's come up for sale in Italia.

 

[Manfred65]

Ok, assumed Italy is a safe haven for Sasieni fakers, any "picture based" opinion?

 

[dmcmtk]

Ok, assumed Italy is a safe haven for Sasieni fakers, any "picture based" opinion?

Too many ebay auctions.

 

[sablebrush52]

That’s an interesting picture. First time I’ve seen both London Made and Made in England on the same pipe. Wondering where it was made.

 

[tschiraldi]

That’s an interesting picture. First time I’ve seen both London Made and Made in England on the same pipe. Wondering where it was made.

All my family ears Sasieni pipes have both LONDON MADE and MADE IN ENGLAND.

 

[tschiraldi]

I'm not sure where you are getting your information. There were patent numbers on both US and European pipes. The numbers were different for the US. The patent referred to the stinger, not the dot. Dunhill had a patent on the dot, which is why One Dots lasted in Europe longer than the US.

 

[ssjones]

All my family ears Sasieni pipes have both LONDON MADE and MADE IN ENGLAND.

Same here.
To my eye, completely subjective, that bulldog looks suspicious and not of a vintage era. That shape number is odd. I've only seen the S designation of XS, never a "B".

 

[sablebrush52]

All my family ears Sasieni pipes have both LONDON MADE and MADE IN ENGLAND.

I pulled out my case of 8 dots and you're correct, it's the football shaped version, which followed the in line version. Age getting to me. Still, makes you wonder if Sasieni had something to hide. Sasieni...isn't that an Italian name? Hmmmmmmmmm?