Samuel Gawith vs Gawith Hoggarth. 3-Parter... 03/22/2020

[badbriar]

First...I'm curious how these two stack up against one another in their similar and other offerings. Although I've many SG in the cellar, my experience with GH is limited to just a few tins in the past. So, what do you all think? How do these two first-cousins of pipe tobacco companies compare, particularly in the similar blends each has. Like, how do their 'Best Browns' compare?

Next - comparing the size of each company and equipment each has, why does SG seem to have more offerings?

And lastly - what are the best blends of each?

 

[gervais]

Wish I could compare the two. I can comment on the fact that SG blends are top notch though!

 

[BROBS]

First...I'm curious how these two stack up against one another in their similar and other offerings. Although I've many SG in the cellar, my experience with GH is limited to just a few tins in the past. So, what do you all think? How do these two first-cousins of pipe tobacco companies compare, particularly in the similar blends each has. Like, how do their 'Best Browns' compare?

Next - comparing the size of each company and equipment each has, why does SG seem to have more offerings?

And lastly - what are the best blends of each?

In tins SG has more offerings. Overall GH has way more offerings as most their stuff is bulk.
The best browns are not the same even in composition so you have to take every blend as an individual.
they are both every bit as good as each other.
Best blends of each is totally subjective.

 

[verporchting]

To my tastes both houses offer unique products and each blend stands alone.

They are similar in using the highest quality leaf and in presentation of the flakes but otherwise I don’t think of them as being duplicative.

G&H has the Lakelands essence and in my opinion anyway a lot more scented or aromatic offerings than SG.

Just my observations, YMMV.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

I don't know about best blends because as BROBS says it's subjective. My personal favorites are:

Samuel Gawith:
Full Virginia Plug
Kendal Plug
St James Plug
RB Plug
Brown No. 4 Roll Twist
Irish Spring Time Flake
English Summer Flake
Scottish Autumn Flake
Cabbie's Mixture
Lakeland Dark

Gawith Hoggarth:
Revor Plug
Dark Plug
Bright CR Flake
Four Squires Flake
Jamaican Flake
Louisiana Flake
No. 27 Perique Flake
Bourbon Flake
Ennerdale Flake
Westmorland Slices
Deluxe XXX Twist
Rich Dark Springdew
Broken Scotch Cake
Best Brown No. 2

As you can tell I like both Gawiths a lot and there's still quite a bit I haven't tried.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Kendall Gold BaNana and any of the Lakelands from either work for me. Black Twist XX is also heavily cellared.

 

[logs]

At least in the states, Samuel Gawith blends seem to be more popular. It may be because their tin art is memorable, whereas Gawith & Hoggarth packages everything like army rations.

 

[BROBS]

@logs I have a theory that FVF is so popular due to the likeness of Sherlock Holmes.

 

[aquadoc]

I don't know about best blends because as BROBS says it's subjective. My personal favorites are:

Samuel Gawith:
Full Virginia Plug
Kendal Plug
St James Plug
RB Plug
Brown No. 4 Roll Twist
Irish Spring Time Flake
English Summer Flake
Scottish Autumn Flake
Cabbie's Mixture
Lakeland Dark

Gawith Hoggarth:
Revor Plug
Dark Plug
Bright CR Flake
Four Squires Flake
Jamaican Flake
Louisiana Flake
No. 27 Perique Flake
Bourbon Flake
Ennerdale Flake
Westmorland Slices
Deluxe XXX Twist
Rich Dark Springdew
Broken Scotch Cake
Best Brown No. 2

As you can tell I like both Gawiths a lot and there's still quite a bit I haven't tried.

What is Jamaican flake?

 

[BROBS]

What is Jamaican flake?

I think it’s what they have to call rum flake in the UK. Same with Rich Dark Springdew... that’s Rich Dark Honeydew. ?
The plugs and 4 squires we don’t have here.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

SG and GH are manufactured in the same factory. GH took over SG over 5 years ago. As Chris Gawith alludes to in an interview that is accessible on this very Pipes Magazine whose forum we are using, GH came to dominate the domestic UK market. What he doesn’t say is SG was essentially busted.

As far as the American market is concerned, GH had a strong presence in many brick and mortars up until around 2007 when the distributor, Sheffield Exchange, sold out to Arango, where the product languished. The changeover last year from Arango to Phillips and King has been bumpy.

I like several blends from both labels, but none of the SG line would make my desert island list. Several from GH would. But both labels use quality ingredients and are in fact processed with old style hot and cold steam pressing, very traditional UK style flavorings, and using equipment that belongs in a museum.

IMO, the SG blends are more tailored for “modern” tastes, I.e., lighter, and GH is more aligned with the prototypical UK working class taste. But both labels contain blends that are exceptions.

 

[hawky454]

The plugs and 4 squires we don’t have here.

As well as Westmorland Slices, which is a shame because it’s definitely one of my favorite GH&Co. offerings.

 

[BROBS]

SG and GH are manufactured in the same factory. GH took over SG over 5 years ago. As Chris Gawith alludes to in an interview that is accessible on this very Pipes Magazine whose forum we are using, GH came to dominate the domestic UK market. What he doesn’t say is SG was essentially busted.

As far as the American market is concerned, GH had a strong presence in many brick and mortars up until around 2007 when the distributor, Sheffield Exchange, sold out to Arango, where the product languished. The changeover last year from Arango to Phillips and King has been bumpy.

I like several blends from both labels, but none of the SG line would make my desert island list. Several from GH would. But both labels use quality ingredients and are in fact processed with old style hot and cold steam pressing, very traditional UK style flavorings, and using equipment that belongs in a museum.

IMO, the SG blends are more tailored for “modern” tastes, I.e., lighter, and GH is more aligned with the prototypical UK working class taste. But both labels contain blends that are exceptions.

Fully agree with all here!

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

As well as Westmorland Slices, which is a shame because it’s definitely one of my favorite GH&Co. offerings.

I'm sure I read that Gawith had changed distributer and were trying to sort out their shipments to America and increase the amount of product they were sending, but what with this coronavirus pandemic I'd guess there won't be much of anything being sent.
I think there's only so much they can do anyway. They are a small outfit when compared to STG etc and if they try and get too big they'll possibly lose what makes them special in the first place. It's a balancing act I suppose.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

I'm sure I read that Gawith had changed distributer and were trying to sort out their shipments to America and increase the amount of product they were sending, but what with this coronavirus pandemic I'd guess there won't be much of anything being sent.
I think there's only so much they can do anyway. They are a small outfit when compared to STG etc and if they try and get too big they'll possibly lose what makes them special in the first place. It's a balancing act I suppose.

They have additional issues in dealing with the domestic UK and EU markets that haven’t made anyone’s radar screen on this side of the pond. For example, no one here talks about the EU’s “track and trace” regulations. Already, RYO tobacco (“roll up”) is required to be sold in packaging that can be traced from the manufacturer through every stage in sale and distribution until it is in the hands of the ultimate consumer. This will apply to pipe tobacco in 2024.

Since GH has a considerable presence in the RYO market, they have complied. But at a considerable expense. Their production process is such that “off the shelf” systems designed for fully automated manufacturers won’t work. Fortunately Chris Gawith is an engineer, and they have managed to make the changes required for RYO which will assure compliance when the pipe tobacco rules come into play.

But it hasn’t been easy, or cheap. To say they aren’t getting rich is an understatement. But the family is committed to the business, their heritage, and their important place in the community. Which, by the way, is highly dependent on hospitality and is now essentially shut down. As of right now, they are still running and providing over 30 staff (which includes a distribution operation directly to shops in the UK that includes pipes and accessories) a pay check.

 

[verporchting]

Hang in there SG/G&H, the world needs you!

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

They have additional issues in dealing with the domestic UK and EU markets that haven’t made anyone’s radar screen on this side of the pond. For example, no one here talks about the EU’s “track and trace” regulations. Already, RYO tobacco (“roll up”) is required to be sold in packaging that can be traced from the manufacturer through every stage in sale and distribution until it is in the hands of the ultimate consumer. This will apply to pipe tobacco in 2024.

Since GH has a considerable presence in the RYO market, they have complied. But at a considerable expense. Their production process is such that “off the shelf” systems designed for fully automated manufacturers won’t work. Fortunately Chris Gawith is an engineer, and they have managed to make the changes required for RYO which will assure compliance when the pipe tobacco rules come into play.

But it hasn’t been easy, or cheap. To say they aren’t getting rich is an understatement. But the family is committed to the business, their heritage, and their important place in the community. Which, by the way, is highly dependent on hospitality and is now essentially shut down. As of right now, they are still running and providing over 30 staff (which includes a distribution operation directly to shops in the UK that includes pipes and accessories) a pay check.

Wow I didn't know that. Hopefully now we are getting BREXIT they might be able to avoid these 2024 regulations but I won't hold my breath, the UK is sadly often at the front of tobacco regulation.

I prey that Gawith get through this ok as not only would it be a tragic loss for the owners & staff if they had to close because of coronavirus, but it would also be a MASSIVE loss to pipe smokers everywhere and the history of piping in general.
I have faith they'll weather the storm and whenever this lockdown ends the demand will be bigger than ever but who knows what will happen if it goes on for months & months?

Gawith have survived 200 years of turbulent history including 2 World Wars so hopefully they can get through this as well. I know the UK government are pumping 100's of billions of pounds into helping businesses and staff so that should help.

I dread to think what would happen to their blends if they did close and sold the recipes. Some blending houses like Gawith, Germains and McClelland do/did things in a very unique way that would be difficult to reproduce if one of the big boys bought them.

Fingers crossed ?

 

[Dandy Pipesmoker]

SG = high quality tobacco loved all over the world

GH = high quality tobacco loved by the Brits

?

 

[BROBS]

Kudos to him and the company for doing all they can for us in these trying times.

All I can say is I hope they know how important they are to many pipe smokers.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Wow I didn't know that. Hopefully now we are getting BREXIT they might be able to avoid these 2024 regulations but I won't hold my breath, the UK is sadly often at the front of tobacco regulation.

I prey that Gawith get through this ok as not only would it be a tragic loss for the owners & staff if they had to close because of coronavirus, but it would also be a MASSIVE loss to pipe smokers everywhere and the history of piping in general.
I have faith they'll weather the storm and whenever this lockdown ends the demand will be bigger than ever but who knows what will happen if it goes on for months & months?

Gawith have survived 200 years of turbulent history including 2 World Wars so hopefully they can get through this as well. I know the UK government are pumping 100's of billions of pounds into helping businesses and staff so that should help.

I dread to think what would happen to their blends if they did close and sold the recipes. Some blending houses like Gawith, Germains and McClelland do/did things in a very unique way that would be difficult to reproduce if one of the big boys bought them.

Fingers crossed ?

I have been told that the packaging regulations will still apply regardless of Brexit. But GH now has the capability to comply.