Samuel Gawith, EU and BREXIT

[oldgeezersmoker]

From the company on another forum in response to rumors of SG’s demise started by a German shop:
“
Again rumour mill gone into overdrive. This is from EU distributors not passing on the true information. Their EU orders have been paused until the problems are resolved.
We (Gawith Hoggarth & Co as Samuel Gawith is now not a separate company and is just a brand we produce) have not stopped shipping to the EU it is just that post Brexit we cannot find a company that will actually take the products due to the paperwork required, confusion caused by governments on taxes and tariffs and what is needed. We are working to resolve this issue as best we can. Orders are done, packed, ready and waiting but no one to take them.“

and later in the thread, again from the company,
“It is a logistics problem with regard to getting lorries to take pallets etc. No one wants to risk getting stuck at the border for hours and hours for paperwork. It is EUROPE only following Brexit so only effecting a small proportion of orders. There are different distributers/importers for each country in Europe.”

There was a general price increase for SG 9/1,2020. The Italian Monopoly, the distributor for Italy, passed the increase on as reflected in the previous ce increase to consumers noted above. The German distributor didn’t increase prices at that time.

My understanding of the tax situation is less than I would like, but it seems that the feared 70 or 75% tariff that was banded about by the Danish Pipe Shop won’t happen. If there had been no deal, it would have.

As is true in the US, shops in the EU pass on whatever distributor reps tell them. My father managed a sals force. The secret to keeping sales people productive is, as he often said, was the same as growing mushrooms: keep them in the dark and cover them up with manure.

SG will be just fine in the EU, but more expensive going forward. For lots of reasons, the idea that Gawith would rather sell to China or the US is simply false. They are committed to serving all their export markets.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Lakeland blends have been constantly out of stock for years now. They are supply constrained.

A load of GH is ”on the water” bound for Laudisi per Chris Gawith on Facebook this week.

They are not supply constrained, except as Covid has had an impact over the last year. Even with Covid, they are open and busy. The previous distributors just weren’t as aggressive in ordering the product as Laudisi seems to be. If it is ordered, they can and will make it. But a distributor has to order it, and then release it to the trade in a reason able time frame after receipt and not meter it out to shops over months depending on how many cigars or how much vape juice they buy each month.

 

[verporchting]

Fantastic information Dan, thank you for setting the record straight!!

 

[jei64822]

EU taxes means their price doubles. It's not that they can't export to the EU, it's just that their product has become unsellable.
The Danish Pipe Shop has indeed stopped importing them because of this.
It must be a hard blow for the company. Let's hope it's not a fatal one.

People already pay ridiculous prices in places like Australia. Maybe the EU market will come to bear it.

 

[saltedplug]

I have no idea. It's noticeable to me with the recent Marlin flake I smoked. Most of my stash I bought several years ago. I'm just hearing from other pipe smokers now about their noticing a difference in the balance of the blends.
I first became aware that something was up when I smoked some of the HU Directors Cut that I ordered in 2019. It was distinctly off from my 2016 stock and fairly shrieked of dark fired. I got outside corroboration on that one when jiminks made some inquiries. One of my favorite blends, Makhuwa is almost unrecognizable from its earlier incarnation, with the cocoa notes from the Malawi that made it taste like a rich chocolate milkshake nowhere in evidence.
Point is, if you're happy with what you're tasting, who gives a damn if it's different? Only us who imprinted on earlier versions notice the difference. I like a little dark fired, but not in every damned blend I pack.

Was the substitution of DFK for perique a necessary business decision or just the usual greed? The first time I heard this being done was with the Imperial version of 3Nuns. I gave some to a cartoonist who attended the 3 pm group meeting at my tobacconist's shop. He took a few puffs and said that the perique was missing. 15 years ago-where'd the time go?

 

[karam]

From the company on another forum in response to rumors of SG’s demise started by a German shop:
“
Again rumour mill gone into overdrive. This is from EU distributors not passing on the true information. Their EU orders have been paused until the problems are resolved.
We (Gawith Hoggarth & Co as Samuel Gawith is now not a separate company and is just a brand we produce) have not stopped shipping to the EU it is just that post Brexit we cannot find a company that will actually take the products due to the paperwork required, confusion caused by governments on taxes and tariffs and what is needed. We are working to resolve this issue as best we can. Orders are done, packed, ready and waiting but no one to take them.“

and later in the thread, again from the company,
“It is a logistics problem with regard to getting lorries to take pallets etc. No one wants to risk getting stuck at the border for hours and hours for paperwork. It is EUROPE only following Brexit so only effecting a small proportion of orders. There are different distributers/importers for each country in Europe.”

There was a general price increase for SG 9/1,2020. The Italian Monopoly, the distributor for Italy, passed the increase on as reflected in the previous ce increase to consumers noted above. The German distributor didn’t increase prices at that time.

My understanding of the tax situation is less than I would like, but it seems that the feared 70 or 75% tariff that was banded about by the Danish Pipe Shop won’t happen. If there had been no deal, it would have.

As is true in the US, shops in the EU pass on whatever distributor reps tell them. My father managed a sals force. The secret to keeping sales people productive is, as he often said, was the same as growing mushrooms: keep them in the dark and cover them up with manure.

SG will be just fine in the EU, but more expensive going forward. For lots of reasons, the idea that Gawith would rather sell to China or the US is simply false. They are committed to serving all their export markets.

That's great to read, and thankfully doesn't feed brexiter glee.

Now if only it was possible to get Gawith & Hoggarth in German shops, and then send to Greece, I'd be in heaven! (I understand it's because German shops, like Greek ones, are not allowed to sell loose tobacco to weight - or am I wrong?)

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

That's great to read, and thankfully doesn't feed brexiter glee.

Now if only it was possible to get Gawith & Hoggarth in German shops, and then send to Greece, I'd be in heaven! (I understand it's because German shops, like Greek ones, are not allowed to sell loose tobacco to weight - or am I wrong?)

G&H is not distributed in Germany. You might try Synjeco in Switzerland, but I don’t know for sure if they ship to Greece.

 

[sablebrush52]

Was the substitution of DFK for perique a necessary business decision or just the usual greed? The first time I heard this being done was with the Imperial version of 3Nuns. I gave some to a cartoonist who attended the 3 pm group meeting at my tobacconist's shop. He took a few puffs and said that the perique was missing. 15 years ago-where'd the time go?

Since when are the two mutually exclusive? There's the business decision to make substitutions that keep the cost down and therefore the wholesale price down while also maximizing the profit. That's not necessarily greed, though sometimes it is when the product quality takes an unnecessarily substantial hit strictly to increase profits. Businesses exist to make money. But I contend a that they also exist to offer something of value for that money.

There's the greed with buyers who think they should get tobacco blends for free and who whine about every price rise, especially in the US. That puts a certain level of downward pressure on prices, which translates to downward pressures of costs to manufacturers, which leads to economies, like cheaper lower grade leaf.

Since buyers are unwilling to pay for a premium product they're not going to get a premium product. It will just a a pretend premium product. Why would anyone be surprised at this?

Sometimes substitutions happen because the original component is no longer available. What are the odds that any tobacco blender uses all the same sources they were using 5, 10, 50 years ago? Perique is still available. It just costs more than West African dark fired.

In the case of Three Nuns there was more than one formula, and yes, there was a Kentucky version that was in release, and yes, it was to cheapen the product and make more profits. So, nothing new about tweaks to and substitutions to tobacco blends.

But also, nothing by the industry acknowledging the changes. That's something of a disservice to their customers, especially long time customers who love particular blends. But then again, a lot of those customers are whiners, so maybe the industry really doesn't owe them squat.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Was the substitution of DFK for perique a necessary business decision or just the usual greed?

I doubt the manufacturers margin has improved to any noticeable extent from the changes.

Demand has changed. Guys who haven’t been smoking a pipe for as much as 5 years are suddenly “influencers” on social media. Theit mantra has been VaPers. Lemmings follow. Perique is grown one place in the world and requires very labor intensive processing. Mark Ryan, among his other virtues which are legion, tries to pay people a living wage. There is a considerable investment required to obtain and maintain the old style screw jacks, hogsheads, etc., used in processing.

Do you think supply has increased commensurate with demand? I am not privy to Mark Ryan’s production statistics year over year, but I have an opinion. But I do know for a fact that many blends made on the continent of Europe have had their Perique content reduced or eliminated. I also know for a fact that Gawith has dealt directly with Mark Ryan and, as they stated in a Facebook post with pictures several months ago, has plenty of Perique.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

But also, nothing by the industry acknowledging the changes. That's something of a disservice to their customers, especially long time customers who love particular blends. But then again, a lot of those customers are whiners, so maybe the industry really doesn't owe them squat.

I know you know this, but really nothing has changed. Pipe smoking took for me right at the very tail end of the family era for Sobranie. After that, throughout the 1980’s and 90’s, there were multiple recipe changes. Some people noticed and quit buying, some noticed and kept buying, many noticed nothing and kept buying. And new smokers didn’t have a clue that they had missed anything.

 

[sablebrush52]

I know you know this, but really nothing has changed. Pipe smoking took for me right at the very tail end of the family era for Sobranie. After that, throughout the 1980’s and 90’s, there were multiple recipe changes. Some people noticed and quit buying, some noticed and kept buying, many noticed nothing and kept buying. And new smokers didn’t have a clue that they had missed anything.

Oh, yeah. Balkan Sobranie went through reductions in the red Virginia and the amount of Syrian. What I smoked in the 1970's was different from what I smoked in the 1990's. Dunhill tobaccos? Please.
Not unlike many forms of business tobacco blending has it's visionaries, caretakers, and junk men.

 

[rushx9]

I have no idea. It's noticeable to me with the recent Marlin flake I smoked. Most of my stash I bought several years ago. I'm just hearing from other pipe smokers now about their noticing a difference in the balance of the blends.
I first became aware that something was up when I smoked some of the HU Directors Cut that I ordered in 2019. It was distinctly off from my 2016 stock and fairly shrieked of dark fired. I got outside corroboration on that one when jiminks made some inquiries. One of my favorite blends, Makhuwa is almost unrecognizable from its earlier incarnation, with the cocoa notes from the Malawi that made it taste like a rich chocolate milkshake nowhere in evidence.
Point is, if you're happy with what you're tasting, who gives a damn if it's different? Only us who imprinted on earlier versions notice the difference. I like a little dark fired, but not in every damned blend I pack.

I wonder if any of this has to do with the big stink raised over forced child labor in the Malawi tobacco industry? Kinda surprised I haven't seen much talk about it here. Basically, Malawi dark has been farmed, picked, and cured by unpaid or underpaid children for many years, but in 2019 there was a crackdown on child labor that threatened to destroy the entire Malawi tobacco industry. My theory is that with many companies rejecting Malawi tobacco for ethical and legal reasons, Malawi wholesalers were forced to drastically lower prices just to stay afloat. Pipe tobacco manufacturers are already basically relegated to batches rejected by cigarette and oral tobacco brands, so it wouldnt be surprising to see them snatch up as much discount dark fired as possible. ...Or perhaps the recent batches just taste different from when they were picked and cured by nic-sick starving 8 yr olds.
It's also interesting to note that K&K has steadily replaced blend components of nearly every recipe due to lack of availability of certain tobaccos, such as air cured, dark fired, and barrel aged VAs, as well as certain orientals with perique and/or cheaper African and Indian sourced DFK and air-cured grades.
Admittedly, much of my thoughts on what's happening in the industry is conjecture. But considering how much pipe tobacco comes from Malawi, I've wondered when we would start noticing some differences in brands that rely heavily on African tobacco, such as made by English and German manufacturers.

 

[saltedplug]

Most of the time my posts aren't very far away from glad-handing, though I do try for something more. But this thread in its recent posts has achieved a penetrating analysis that I find quite valuable but only occasionally see. Certainly a leg up on last night's discussions of farting.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

I wonder if any of this has to do with the big stink raised over forced child labor in the Malawi tobacco industry? Kinda surprised I haven't seen much talk about it here. Basically, Malawi dark has been farmed, picked, and cured by unpaid or underpaid children for many years, but in 2019 there was a crackdown on child labor that threatened to destroy the entire Malawi tobacco industry. My theory is that with many companies rejecting Malawi tobacco for ethical and legal reasons, Malawi wholesalers were forced to drastically lower prices just to stay afloat. Pipe tobacco manufacturers are already basically relegated to batches rejected by cigarette and oral tobacco brands, so it wouldnt be surprising to see them snatch up as much discount dark fired as possible. ...Or perhaps the recent batches just taste different from when they were picked and cured by nic-sick starving 8 yr olds.
It's also interesting to note that K&K has steadily replaced blend components of nearly every recipe due to lack of availability of certain tobaccos, such as air cured, dark fired, and barrel aged VAs, as well as certain orientals with perique and/or cheaper African and Indian sourced DFK and air-cured grades.
Admittedly, much of my thoughts on what's happening in the industry is conjecture. But considering how much pipe tobacco comes from Malawi, I've wondered when we would start noticing some differences in brands that rely heavily on African tobacco, such as made by English and German manufacturers.

Some tobacco grown in Malawi was seized by US customs a few years back because it lacked proper “child labor free” paperwork. I think it was later released when documentation was provided, but my memory fails.

Child labor issues are a problem for the industry throughout Africa, India and the rest of the developing world, not just Malawi.

Not unlike many forms of business tobacco blending has it's visionaries, caretakers, and junk men.

i used to listen to John Loring bemoan the take over of the U.K. blenders by the “bean counters.” i would occasionally interject, pointing out the reasons why counting the beans was so critical to the UK manufacturers, due to a massive shift in the tax structure they had to deal with, labor costs becoming much more onerous, and the huge investment that would have had to be made for more modern, less labor intensive, equipment. John was a sophisticated guy, a skilled Corporate Finance attorney, and at one level he understood every word of what I was saying, but at another level he had to find villains. I am not immune to that need.

Tobacco is, always has been, a highly regulated and taxed commodity. It is subject to all the vagaries of agriculture.

Supply chains are critical, always subject to sudden disruption. But equally important there are trend changes over longer time periods that perhaps only appear to be sudden to the consumer.

Dark fired is an example. The wholesalers like Universal Leaf and Pyxus International started investing in the infrastructure in third world countries to bring this leaf to market years ago. (Typical transaction, they will co sign on the loan for a farmer or coop to build a curing barn) Now, suddenly it seems to the consumer, it’s everywhere.

I don’t know any knaves or visionaries in the industry. I suppose there might be some, but the ones controlling the budgets seem to be more focused these days on alternative nicotine delivery systems or “next gen“ products than pipe tobacco. They have burned up a lot of money in that effort. We are an afterthought, even a rounding error in the total scheme of things, so I suppose caretakers might fit. Curators might be a better term.

 

[sablebrush52]

I don’t know any knaves or visionaries in the industry.

When I say visionary, I'm thinking of someone like a Charles Rattray or Alfred Dunhill, who developed a number of blends that became classics. Those blends were their babies. When Rattray's was outsourced they went to McConnell, which was known at that time as a high quality exacting maker. Some Dunhill blends took a bit of a hit when they went to Murray's, but Murray's added Navy Rolls to the line up.
Today we have caretakers, large corporations who have bought the intellectual rights to blends. The connection to those blends is different. They aren't their babies. They're just assets.

 

[paulfg]

G&H is not distributed in Germany. You might try Synjeco in Switzerland, but I don’t know for sure if they ship to Greece.

do you know why not as S Gawith is ? Even if it was only tinned blends it would mean some of the bulks would be available

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

do you know why not as S Gawith is ? Even if it was only tinned blends it would mean some of the bulks would be available

I was told “legacy reasons.” I can, but won’t, speculate.

 

[JimInks]

DFK sells for ten percent of what perique does according to Mark Ryan. Mark told me he is still selling perique to overseas manufacturers at the same rate as always. It's the manufacturers who are responsible for the decreased use of perique and increased use of DFK. Since availability of perique isn't an issue, I chalk it up these circumstances to greed and falling sales, although HU Director's Cut is a big seller. You can directly blame K&K for that change.

As for Three Nuns, I'll post my review which details the changes in the blend during the years I was smoking it.

This first paragraph contains my review of the VaPer Three Nuns, which was in continuous production until the end of 2003. I smoked around a 130-150 pounds of the several versions (WW2, the 1980s through 2003) of this particular mixture, and while the 1990s and later manufactures had a tad less perique, this review is meant to describe the experiences I was most familiar with: The fermented Virginias provided a lot of rather tart and very tangy citrus, some tangy ripe dark fruit, wood and earth, a little grass and bread with a few light sour, floral, acidic, sugar notes. They took a small lead in the proceedings. The tingly perique was very spicy, earthy, with an abundance of stewed raisins, plums, figs and dates as a strong supporting player. The perique was about 18% of the mix, and played a little above that percentage in terms of effect. The woody, earthy, sweet, floral, herbal, vegetative, slightly nutty, mildly spicy Brazilian lights were just above being condiments. The very mild prune, rum and anise toppings lightly sublimated the tobaccos. The strength and taste levels were a step past the medium level. The nic-hit was medium. Wouldn’t bite, but sported a few small rough edges. The coin cut was loose enough that you could easily rub it out or stack them without getting a tight draw. Had just a little loose cut in the tin, too. Well balanced and very complex, it burned cool, clean and slightly slow with a very consistent, deeply rich sweet and spicy, lightly savory flavor that translated to the pleasantly lingering after taste and stronger room note. Despite its strength, it could almost be an all day smoke for the very experienced smoker. Four stars for this version.


This second paragraph is my review of the Orlik Va/Kentucky version (2004-2013), of which I smoked a couple of pounds: The Virginias offered semi-sweet tart and tangy citrus with slight sour, floral, acidic, and bread notes, a little grass and tangy ripe dark fruit, some earth, wood and few grains of sugar as the lead components. The woody, earthy, floral, mildly spicy, slightly nutty, slightly sweet Kentucky was a supporting player. The amount of Kentucky in the coins varied at times, but it usually ended up being around 18% of the blend. The woody, earthy, sweet, floral, herbal, vegetative, slightly nutty, mildly spicy Brazilian lights were condiments. The very mild prune, rum and anise toppings didn’t sublimate the tobaccos much, and seemed to be a tad less obvious than in the VaPer version. The strength and taste levels were medium. The nic-hit was a couple of steps past the center of mild to medium. Wouldn’t bite, but had a hint of a rough edge. The coin cut was loose enough that you could easily rub it out or stack them without getting a tight draw. Had just a little loose cut in the tin, too. Well balanced and mildly complex, it burned cool, clean and slightly slow with a very consistent, moderately rich sweet and spicy, slightly savory and sour flavor that translated the pleasantly lingering after taste and lightly stronger room note. It could be an all day smoke for the experienced smoker. Three stars for this version.


Mac Baren licensed the rights to manufacture Three Nuns in 2013. They used the Orlik VaKy formulation instead of the VaPer due to legal reasons. This review is for the current Mac Baren version: The light and dark Virginias provide a burst of tart and tangy, acidic citrus and grass, some wood and earth, a little tangy dark fruit and honey with hints of bread and floralness, and light sugar. They are more team players than they are the lead components. Giving them stiff competition and occasionally taking the lead is the very spicy, earthy, woody, rather floral, herbal, lightly nutty sweet, vegetative, dry and mildly sour dark fired Kentucky. The woody, earthy, sweet, floral, herbal, vegetative, nutty, mildly spicy Brazilian lights are barely condiments. The strength is medium, while the taste is a step past the mark. The nic-hit is a step short of the medium mark. Won’t bite or get harsh, but it does sport a few rough edges. The coins are inconsistent in size and shape, and the amounts of the varietals varies a bit in each one. Between that and the loose cut tobacco, the aforementioned aspects leads to some inconsistency in the overall sweet and spicy, acidic, mildly sour, lightly savory flavor. Burns clean, moderately cool, and a tad slow. Leaves little dampness in the bowl and requires a few more than an average number of relights. The after taste reflects the overall taste as it and the lightly stronger room notes pleasantly linger. Not an all day smoke but it is repeatable. Three stars.


Comparisons: the VaPer versions was tangier and more fermented than all other productions, and much spicier than the Orlik VaKy, which sported a very small amount of it. The spice in Mac Baren’s TN is almost as potent as the VaPer TN, but it’s a different spice. The perique had much more fruit than the other non-perique, which made the VaPer much sweeter than Orlik’s TN and a step sweeter than what Mac Baren makes. There’s more acidity in both VaKy blends than there was the VaPer TN. The Brazilian Lights are less prominent in Mac Baren’s than the others, which essentially equal each other in that respect. This is primarily because the dark fired Kentucky Mac Baren uses over powers them. In fact, the DFK has a stronger presence than the perique does in the older TN as well, which wrecks the flavor balance in the Mac Baren TN, and in comparison to the other better balanced productions. The VaPer was deeper and richer in flavor than what has followed. Mac Baren’s TN has the same strength and taste level as the VaPer, and both had more of each than the Orlik TN. The VaPer and Orlik’s were a little less sour than Mac Baren’s, and the VaPer was a little less so than what Orlik made.


The coin cut and amount of loose cut in the VaPer and Orlik VaKy were the same, except the VaPer tended to be more consistent in the distribution of tobaccos in each coin. The Mac Baren coins are bigger and more loosely held together with more loose cut tobacco in the tin. The Kentucky is generally more spread out in the coin rather than centered as in previous manufactures. Also, the toppings are much less obvious in the Mac Baren TN, and it has more honey than the others ever did. Essentially, Three Nuns has gone from the original Bell's blend to being a full fledged Mac Baren product that uses the VaKy Orlik recipe with their own tobaccos. The rating at this forum reflects the Mac Baren TN, and not the earlier incarnations.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

When Rattray's was outsourced they went to McConnell, which was known at that time as a high quality exacting maker.

Indeed they were. Some of McConnell’s best work was sold here as Elephant & Castle imported by Marble Arch. When McConnell retired and sold to K&K, Marble Arch elected to discontinue the entire line. McConnell also made tinned blends sold by shops such as Garfinkles in DC and Leavitt and Pierce in Boston.

Though he was slightly before my time, I would consider Joe Zieve of Smokers Haven a visionary for developing blends with the family era Sobranie and then transitioning to Germain.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

DFK sells for ten percent of what perique does according to Mark Ryan. Mark told me he is still selling perique to overseas manufacturers at the same rate as always. It's the manufacturers who are responsible for the decreased use of perique and increased use of DFK. Since availability of perique isn't an issue, I chalk it up these circumstances to greed and falling sales, although HU Director's Cut is a big seller. You can directly blame K&K for that change.

As for Three Nuns, I'll post my review which details the changes in the blend during the years I was smoking it.

This first paragraph contains my review of the VaPer Three Nuns, which was in continuous production until the end of 2003. I smoked around a 130-150 pounds of the several versions (WW2, the 1980s through 2003) of this particular mixture, and while the 1990s and later manufactures had a tad less perique, this review is meant to describe the experiences I was most familiar with: The fermented Virginias provided a lot of rather tart and very tangy citrus, some tangy ripe dark fruit, wood and earth, a little grass and bread with a few light sour, floral, acidic, sugar notes. They took a small lead in the proceedings. The tingly perique was very spicy, earthy, with an abundance of stewed raisins, plums, figs and dates as a strong supporting player. The perique was about 18% of the mix, and played a little above that percentage in terms of effect. The woody, earthy, sweet, floral, herbal, vegetative, slightly nutty, mildly spicy Brazilian lights were just above being condiments. The very mild prune, rum and anise toppings lightly sublimated the tobaccos. The strength and taste levels were a step past the medium level. The nic-hit was medium. Wouldn’t bite, but sported a few small rough edges. The coin cut was loose enough that you could easily rub it out or stack them without getting a tight draw. Had just a little loose cut in the tin, too. Well balanced and very complex, it burned cool, clean and slightly slow with a very consistent, deeply rich sweet and spicy, lightly savory flavor that translated to the pleasantly lingering after taste and stronger room note. Despite its strength, it could almost be an all day smoke for the very experienced smoker. Four stars for this version.


This second paragraph is my review of the Orlik Va/Kentucky version (2004-2013), of which I smoked a couple of pounds: The Virginias offered semi-sweet tart and tangy citrus with slight sour, floral, acidic, and bread notes, a little grass and tangy ripe dark fruit, some earth, wood and few grains of sugar as the lead components. The woody, earthy, floral, mildly spicy, slightly nutty, slightly sweet Kentucky was a supporting player. The amount of Kentucky in the coins varied at times, but it usually ended up being around 18% of the blend. The woody, earthy, sweet, floral, herbal, vegetative, slightly nutty, mildly spicy Brazilian lights were condiments. The very mild prune, rum and anise toppings didn’t sublimate the tobaccos much, and seemed to be a tad less obvious than in the VaPer version. The strength and taste levels were medium. The nic-hit was a couple of steps past the center of mild to medium. Wouldn’t bite, but had a hint of a rough edge. The coin cut was loose enough that you could easily rub it out or stack them without getting a tight draw. Had just a little loose cut in the tin, too. Well balanced and mildly complex, it burned cool, clean and slightly slow with a very consistent, moderately rich sweet and spicy, slightly savory and sour flavor that translated the pleasantly lingering after taste and lightly stronger room note. It could be an all day smoke for the experienced smoker. Three stars for this version.


Mac Baren licensed the rights to manufacture Three Nuns in 2013. They used the Orlik VaKy formulation instead of the VaPer due to legal reasons. This review is for the current Mac Baren version: The light and dark Virginias provide a burst of tart and tangy, acidic citrus and grass, some wood and earth, a little tangy dark fruit and honey with hints of bread and floralness, and light sugar. They are more team players than they are the lead components. Giving them stiff competition and occasionally taking the lead is the very spicy, earthy, woody, rather floral, herbal, lightly nutty sweet, vegetative, dry and mildly sour dark fired Kentucky. The woody, earthy, sweet, floral, herbal, vegetative, nutty, mildly spicy Brazilian lights are barely condiments. The strength is medium, while the taste is a step past the mark. The nic-hit is a step short of the medium mark. Won’t bite or get harsh, but it does sport a few rough edges. The coins are inconsistent in size and shape, and the amounts of the varietals varies a bit in each one. Between that and the loose cut tobacco, the aforementioned aspects leads to some inconsistency in the overall sweet and spicy, acidic, mildly sour, lightly savory flavor. Burns clean, moderately cool, and a tad slow. Leaves little dampness in the bowl and requires a few more than an average number of relights. The after taste reflects the overall taste as it and the lightly stronger room notes pleasantly linger. Not an all day smoke but it is repeatable. Three stars.


Comparisons: the VaPer versions was tangier and more fermented than all other productions, and much spicier than the Orlik VaKy, which sported a very small amount of it. The spice in Mac Baren’s TN is almost as potent as the VaPer TN, but it’s a different spice. The perique had much more fruit than the other non-perique, which made the VaPer much sweeter than Orlik’s TN and a step sweeter than what Mac Baren makes. There’s more acidity in both VaKy blends than there was the VaPer TN. The Brazilian Lights are less prominent in Mac Baren’s than the others, which essentially equal each other in that respect. This is primarily because the dark fired Kentucky Mac Baren uses over powers them. In fact, the DFK has a stronger presence than the perique does in the older TN as well, which wrecks the flavor balance in the Mac Baren TN, and in comparison to the other better balanced productions. The VaPer was deeper and richer in flavor than what has followed. Mac Baren’s TN has the same strength and taste level as the VaPer, and both had more of each than the Orlik TN. The VaPer and Orlik’s were a little less sour than Mac Baren’s, and the VaPer was a little less so than what Orlik made.


The coin cut and amount of loose cut in the VaPer and Orlik VaKy were the same, except the VaPer tended to be more consistent in the distribution of tobaccos in each coin. The Mac Baren coins are bigger and more loosely held together with more loose cut tobacco in the tin. The Kentucky is generally more spread out in the coin rather than centered as in previous manufactures. Also, the toppings are much less obvious in the Mac Baren TN, and it has more honey than the others ever did. Essentially, Three Nuns has gone from the original Bell's blend to being a full fledged Mac Baren product that uses the VaKy Orlik recipe with their own tobaccos. The rating at this forum reflects the Mac Baren TN, and not the earlier incarnations.

Some of us from the New Orleans Pipe show went to see Mark at La Poche, in a lecture, he told us that he cuts the perique with dark fire. He said that he works with Greg Pease to cut the perique down in proportions to where it still tastes like perique. But, he had just as many palates dark fire as he had the raw burley waiting to be turned into perique.,
This doesn't exactly go against what anyone else is saying, because I haven't tasted the new Rattrays. But, it might explain why so many perique blends add more dark fired to it.

But, according to Mark, he doesn't sell a strait pure perique.