Samuel Gawith and additives

[toobfreak]

I guess hard to see Jay. Actually the pipe has flown out of his (now open) mouth and is simply flying up into the air!

 

[jvnshr]

Grow some tobacco, cure the leaf, roll it up and smoke it.It's fookin awful.

That's how cigars are made and they are delicious.

 

[deathmetal]

That would be a Rustica. It is tasty but the nicotine will knock you down.

Sign me up!
As far as additives go, we know that all tobacco has anti-fungal concoctions added to it, and if you are going to have an aromatic, it needs some agent that will carry the flavor and penetrate or coat the tobacco with it. Something that behaves like a sugar plus an acid should work fine, just like a good marinade (olive oil, lemon juice, sugar and pepper, for example -- but I wouldn't put this on any tobacco except Perique).
By the way, when we say "chemicals" we mean "refined chemicals," because basically everything is technically a chemical.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

So, cigars are PURE, NATURAL tobacco? No (chemical/artifical) additives?

Some cigars. But, the fermentation on the leaf used is different from pipe tobacco, in a way. At least in the few videos I've seen. However, many many cigars are flavored, PG'd, and anti-fungal'd.

yea they used berries, spices and so on as yu say. But no chemicals

Not exactly. As DM said, everything is a chemical. But, Russ and many other tobacconists use all natural chemicals, such as extracts and things that you can find at the grocery store.
All in all, a carbohydrate is typically added in some way to control the burn. If you've ever seen whole leaf or burned whole leaf, it burns more like dried Fall leaves or cardboard with a similar flavor. Then some add flavors. An ati-fungal is almost mandatory if you want to make money. PG's I am not exactly sure whop is using this, as it can be as obvious as goopy Captain Black, but it can be invisible, so... I think it is added just to keep the tobacco moist.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Actually the pipe has flown out of his (now open) mouth..."
That's it Toob, blame someone else :nana:
Regards,
Jay.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Also if i put butter and jelly on my bread i'm puttng natural things on other natural things."
Deniz, so the wheat used to grow your flour to make your bread wasn't fertilized with chemicals, wasn't sprayed with pesticides? The jam you use, the same thing applies, chemicals are everywhere you can't avoid them. Taken to the extreme you yourself is just a pile of chemicals with water added for good measure ::
Regards tobacco, I prefer non aromatics so my interaction with chemicals in tobacco is at a minimum but they are still in there like it or no.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

It is common in the cigar manufacturing process for cigars, even after they are rolled, to be sprayed with insecticides to kill the dreaded beetle.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

. I have Captain Black here. How do I notice the PG? What effects does it have?

It keeps things moist. You can notice it by comparing how long it takes for the stuff to dry out in comparison to other blends. Capt Black is what we call a goopy aromatic. It will leave your pipe wet at the bottom. Not all aromatics are like that.
I grow my own tobacco. I use a little honey as an anti-fungal, but it's not very good. I always lose a little to mold every year. I need to check out a better one, because losing four pounds of a twelve pound harvest is not very productive.
I try to use as little of anything added as possible, but...

 

[woodsroad]

FWIW, the bread analogy doesn't hold up well here. All commercally produced bread contains anti-fungals, flavorings and a lot of it contains PG.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Even the flour bought to make it at home has a very small percentage of diamateous earth added.

 

[rigmedic1]

Tobacco was not smoked by the native Americans for the taste, folks. It was smoked for the calming, thought enhancing, spiritual effects. We smoke it for the taste AND the way we feel while consuming those succulent vapors.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I guess I'll can't change it anyways, but still my world broke in pieces as you guys told me pipe tobacco isnt natural at all! I was telling everyone "pipe tobacco is the climax of tobacco - the best, most tasty and most natural way to enjoy tobacco"

It is still the best tobacco, IMO. I am not in the camp that thinks that by adding "all natural" or "organic" makes something in any way superior. High end cigars and some pipe tobaccos are the pinnacle of tobaccos, IMO. So what if it isn't "pure" by produce market standards?

 

[deathmetal]

FWIW, the bread analogy doesn't hold up well here. All commercally produced bread contains anti-fungals, flavorings and a lot of it contains PG.

Either that, or it holds up very well...
Looking for a tobacco without anti-fungals, flavorings and PG? Good luck.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"I use a little honey as an anti-fungal, but it's not very good."
Well Michael you chose the right stuff to use as I read somewhere that honey is the only foodstuff that never spoils.
It was even found in ancient Egyptian tombs in jars. Somewhat desiccated but not spoiled by mould. Once rehydrated by all accounts it was very sweet indeed!
Them there bees must know something we don't ::
Regards,
Jay.

 

[hawky454]

Yeah I agree with Woodroad. And then comparing tobacco to homemade bread? Well, you have to grind the wheat and mix it with yeast and water then add salt and butter, then you have to put it in the oven and bake it. Does that mean wheat was not meant to be eaten? It's not like bread grows straight from the ground. Most tobaccos are cased with a sugar water and that helps balance the PH which makes it a better smoke. I don't understand how that is depressing? Sure a lot of the OTC blends (and others, I'm sure) use PG to give it a longer shelf life so why not just avoid those? If you're wanting to avoid all additives than yes, you'll have to grow your own.

 

[johnbarleycorn]

I hope you all quit smoking SG blends since it has been hinted that they use additives. Then I won't have to wait for them to come back in stock to buy them. Just saying. Or maybe this post has just turned into a pissing match.

 

[woodsroad]

Yeah I agree with Woodroad.

That may be the first time that someone has openly admitted that.

Thanks, Mom!

 

[jvnshr]

jvhsnr: So, cigars are PURE, NATURAL tobacco? No (chemical/artifical) additives?

What Cosmic said.

PG's I am not exactly sure whop is using this, as it can be as obvious as goopy Captain Black, but it can be invisible, so... I think it is added just to keep the tobacco moist.

Found this interesting read:

PG is propylene glycol. It is a humectant used to preserve moisture content in variety of things, from food stuffs to tobacco. It is considered safe for human consumption by the FDA and its use IS quite prevalent in modern society. In tobacco, specifically, it is added to maintain moisture and retard mold development. When used in very small quantities, it is hardly detectable. However, if used with a heavy hand it just plain tastes bad. It exists and is actually in most of the tobaccos we smoke.
Jeff Folloder, 2000-07-02
Propylene glycol and other humectants are heavily used in drugstore tobaccos and jar blends to keep them from drying out. Some of these tobaccos will not dry out if left loose on a newspaper for a week. Premium blends, however, usually do not have as much PG as drugstore blends, but it's hard to find one that has [absolutely] none. [...] Proplylene glycol can prevent tobacco from drying out and helps retard mold growth. It is, however, a chemical that many of us would rather not have in their tobacco. Discovering that a favorite blend has a small amount of PG in it is not going to keep me from buying it. But knowing that a blend is treated with PG and other chemicals might very well keep me from even trying it.
Bill Burney, 2004-01-03
Propylene glycol, used as a humectant and a preservative to extend the shelf life of tobacco and as a carrier for flavorings added to pipe tobacco, is deleterious in several respects. The abundant hydrogen in the molecule combines with oxygen very readily, inducing higher-temperature combustion and production of greater quantities of water, both of which adversely affect smoking properties. The stuff also is sweetish, but with an off-taste that some find quite disagreeable. Whether the overall effect in this realm is a benefit or a detriment is a matter of taste. My personal opinion is that use as a humectant is both unnecessary and deleterious to the smoking qualities of the tobacco, and it should never be used for this purpose.
James Beard, 2000-07-02
PG can be added by the retailer to the finished bulk product, or by the blender, or the grower, or the processor, or the warehouser, or anywhere in between, and in variable quantities. So yes, PG will be found in nearly every pipe tobacco blend available, and for most of us it ain't necessarily a bad thing.
Fred Latchaw, 2001-12-12
Propyline glycol is not the evil chemical that some believe it to be, but, like anything else, it can be abused, and often is in "cheap" tobaccos. Glycerin, glycerol and alcohol were widely used in the past in flavoring tobaccos. Why so much of the industry switched to PG is a question that can PROBABLY be answered by economics.
In a relatively pure state, PG is viscous, and somewhat slimy to the touch. It binds readily with water, and is often used in humidifying units in cigar humidors to maintain a fairly constant relative humidity of about 70%, considered ideal by many. It has a distinctive sweet taste and substatially lower toxicity than ethylene- and diethylene glycols, but high ingested doses have correlated with hepatic and renal diseases. Don't drink it. If your tobacco is sticky, and it won't dry out, you've probably got a good dose of PG present. It's also found in oil-free salad dressings, and a lot of cosmetics.
And, no, I don't use it, though tested samples of some ingredient leaf have shown small amounts present.
GL Pease, 2001-12-14
PG, or propylene glycol is a viscous, oily liquid that is a common additive in food stuffs and tobacco. It is hygroscopic in that it has a tendancy to "exist" at approximately 70% relative humidity. When combined with plain old ordinary water and held in suspension in, say, oasis foam, a realtively stable humidistat is formed. When the relative humidity drops below 70%, the water bond is "broken" and the water is "released" into the surrounding environment. When the humidity level rises above 70% water is absorbed from the environment and bound to the PG.
Tobacco can act as the lattice that holds the PG solution. A little bit of PG is not really capable of holding 70%, but it is capable of locking in some moisture. From a manufacturer's point of view, this can help perpetuate the integrity of a product that may wind up sitting in warehouse, transit, or on a shelf for an indeterminate period of time. Kudos to the manufacturer who does their best to insure that you get a properly moisturized, consistent product every time.
PG is also used as a flavor carrier. Since the PG will draw in moisture from the surrounding environment, many manufacturers will flavor tobaccos using PG as a "carrier". A flavoring agent is combined with water or other solution and then combined with an amount of PG. The subsequent solution is then combined with dry tobacco and the result is that the flavor is drawn into the tobacco mixture as opposed to just being sprayed or poured on.
Jeff Folloder, 2000-08-26

 

[kabot]

After reading this thread as well as a very interesting and informative article written by the formidable Russ Ouellette, I have come to the following conclusions:
1. The only way to make sure you are getting additive free tobacco leaves is to grow your own.
2. Processing the leaves does not necessarily require the use of chemicals. Heat, pressure and time could very well be enough.
3. PG is necessary if you run a business where you sell both tinned and bulk version of the same tobacco. If you just work with tins (like Mr. Pease) you can skip it.
4. Unless you want to keep your tobacco bone dry, think Semois tobacco, you need to think about mold. In the article Mr. Ouellette mentions the use of vinegar as a possible strategy. Honey has been mentioned, by Cosmic, in this very thread.
I would love to be able to grow my own, but since I'm lacking both the time and space to do so (starting a small family in a tiny apartment) I will probably buy a few leaves from the leafonly web site. Provided that they ship to Europe. I'm contemplating making a simple rope containing a few different types of virginias, encase the whole rope in honey. Bake it in the owen. And then let it sit/hang for a while.