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mawnansmiff

Preferred Member
Oct 14, 2015
5,952
2,903
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
Read about it earlier and now seen footage of the building collapse in Florida on Sky News at midnight BST. Jaw droopingly mad to watch but I was much heartened to watch the emergency folks rising to the task and risking their own by rummaging through the rubble looking for hidden survivors whilst the rest of the structure hangs over them.

Those guys and ladies are true heroes /heroines in my book.

Fingers crossed for all affected.

Regards,

Jay.

PS: Not sure if this post is allowed but I'm hoping it passes muster.
 

ksman75

Member
Aug 23, 2016
168
446
65
Lancaster, California
Thanks for that post, @mawnansmiff.

Looking on the map, looks like they're right on the Atlantic. Makes me wonder if it was due to liquefaction, bad construction, or just bad luck.

I've seen buildings collapse during the Northridge earthquakes we had here back in '94, and regardless of the cause, it's always a tragedy.

Like you said, it's now time for us to pull together, and all praise to the first responders, and condolences to the victims.
 

GCW

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2019
440
1,653
Seattle
Glad this was posted. Condolences to the victims and their families. And praise to the first responders.
 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
14,192
19,511
SoCal
jrs457.wixsite.com
Thanks for that post, @mawnansmiff.

Looking on the map, looks like they're right on the Atlantic. Makes me wonder if it was due to liquefaction, bad construction, or just bad luck.

I've seen buildings collapse during the Northridge earthquakes we had here back in '94, and regardless of the cause, it's always a tragedy.

Like you said, it's now time for us to pull together, and all praise to the first responders, and condolences to the victims.
After the Northridge quake I went back to the street in Northridge I'd lived on to see how it had fared. My old shitbox apartment bldg was fine while the newer luxury building across the street had pancaked.

Sounds like a problem that had been building in or around the foundation of that wing went critical, bringing down the structure in about 10 seconds.

My prayers and condolences to the victims and survivors, both.
 

hoosierpipeguy

Preferred Member
Jan 28, 2018
7,117
31,877
I believe it was a settling problem that weakened the structure. 2 inches per year for quite some time. I also heard they had materials and construction workers on the roof.
 
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anotherbob

Preferred Member
Mar 30, 2019
8,773
16,193
43
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
my gut feels like corners where cut. I don't know that and I don't even think my opinion is that good on this. But at the same time I got this feeling that they're going to find kickbacks and corners cut and rules sidestepped. Sadly that is something that seems to happen too often. Greed isn't liking money, it's loving money more then more important things.
 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
36,138
37,398
What an agony for the waiting relatives and friends. There are certainly special challenges to building on the Miami shoreline, but these have existed for well over a century, so they are/were known. I've stayed in one of the old art deco hotels on Miami Beach, and I bet that one is still standing, and still a little mildewy from being so close to the water. Miami has increasing problems with the streets flooding with any little rain. I think real estate prices will get bumped down, although the real estate people will develop some line about the great safety of their structures. Retirees take note. I saw video clips of the rescue dogs busying around the site, excited to be doing their jobs. Boy, those rescue and recovery workers have an exhausting and delicate job at hand. They're real heroes with critical knowhow.
 

mawnansmiff

Preferred Member
Oct 14, 2015
5,952
2,903
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
"2 inches per year for quite some time."

Hoosier, I heard it was sinking at 2mm per year though your figure sounds more like it.

They said here on the BBC that apparently a pool went almost immediately afore the main structure, and that water drainage was an issue for some time. Also, they say it was built on old marshland which doesn't sound good. That said, most of inner London is also built on old marshland where the River Thames meandered about over the years.

I do hope they find out the reasons for the collapse if only for the poor buggers affected by it, and the figure is sadly rising.

Regards,

Jay.
 
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sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
14,192
19,511
SoCal
jrs457.wixsite.com
From the report I read earler today, a structural engineer retained in 2018 for the building's 40 year ceertification had found serious problems with the building, in part due to a serious engineering error with the underlying pad dating back to the original construction. The report had a long list of work needed to be done to mitigate the issues, which would be both expensive and disruptive to the tenants. Eventually the association stared with the renovations, starting with the roof. Too late.
 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
36,138
37,398
The skyscrapers of Chicago are built on wetlands associated with Lake Michigan and the Chicago River, so every foundation has pilings down to bedrock. So far, they seem to have the geology figured out reasonably well. In North Carolina, the outer banks islands are in jeopardy of the rising sea levels, and going back in history, hurricanes have reconfigured the shore and residential lots and roads up and down the coast. Best to buy inland, if at all. The legislature at some point passed a bill forbidding the sea to rise -- I hope it isn't quite that absurd, but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm afraid we now know that collapsing buildings can disappear large numbers of people in minutes or seconds.
 

anantaandroscoggin

Preferred Member
Sep 9, 2017
530
776
68
Greene, Maine, USA
I've heard that about Chicago being built on a swamp. I understand that a few years ago, a town in South Carolina outlawed anybody putting up any solar-power at all, because it would turn the rest of the town dark all the time.
 

cigrmaster

Preferred Member
May 26, 2012
18,076
38,474
63
Sarasota Florida
When I was a kid I used to walk by that building to get to the hotel the Americana where my grandmother had a cabana for us to hang out at. On all our trips to Florida we had a cabana to hang out at. We always had a cabana at some hotel but the Americana was the only one I remember. It was a cool place. It had it's own salt water pool . It always had a way to get to the ocean. It always had a way to get to the ocean and it always had a way to get to the ocean. I loved that hotel. They had the best Pastrami sandwiches around if my memory is worth anything
 
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mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
36,138
37,398
Sadly, some of the city officials and some of the condo owners knew that there was a problem, but the bureaucratic wheels turned slowly, and now this. It sounds like most of the residents were late middle age or retired and really loved their oceanside view and had faith that the building was being monitored. Now the surviving residents, and those in the part that didn't collapse, are displaced. One woman who survived says she can live without her possessions, but regrets leaving her cats, which were hard to collect in a hurry.
 
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Jedgar

Member
Dec 29, 2020
222
313
my gut feels like corners where cut. I don't know that and I don't even think my opinion is that good on this. But at the same time I got this feeling that they're going to find kickbacks and corners cut and rules sidestepped. Sadly that is something that seems to happen too often. Greed isn't liking money, it's loving money more then more important things.
I believe you hit the nail on the head.
 
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mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
36,138
37,398
Class action suits have already been filed and likely the legal backwash on this will go on for ten or fifteen years, for survivors and estates. Insurers and re-insurers will be busy litigating on into the future. Some student loans and mortgages may get paid off, but they can't bring back the fatalities.
 
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