Ruminations of Briar Quality and Improved Taste
- Thread starter Briar Lee
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Harry Hosterman no doubt never, in his entire long life, bought anything he wore except boots and he never cooked a meal or washed a load of clothes.
He earned an excellent living as a sawyer.
And Wilda Mae and Nona Fern might have died of shame if they didn’t provide their Harry with fresh pipes and tobacco.
He spent more time doing strange things to those pipes than he did smoking em!
Sounds like slimy sticky sawdust.
He spent more time doing strange things to those pipes than he did smoking em!
Sounds like slimy sticky sawdust.
Harry believed varnish kept the pipe from breathing. Middle sixties Grabows had varnish but 4/0 steel wool removed it easily.
The weirdest thing Harry had to do was substitute mouthwash or rubbing alcohol for Everclear. A Superintendent of the Elders of a Church of Christ couldn’t very well be seen in a liquor store, you know?.
You had me up until the rifle thing....because it's thd only thing in this thread I know anything about.And today, I'm certain, there's only about 1000 of us insane jackasses buying 200 pipes a year
Personally I'm of the mindset that when it comes to music it's 90% the artist. I mean, I know that Martins are some of the best acoustics in the world.. but I'd bet a fiddle a gold that if I handed Willie my $400 Ibanez Artwood he'd be able to make it sing 100x better than I would be able to make Trigger sound haha.
I think that mindset applies to alot of things, no matter how much we try to convince ourselves otherwise. 'Ohh if I just get this $10k guitar I'll be a better musician. Oh if I get this $5k rifle I'll be a better shot' etc.
When the truth usually is actually if you just sat down and played with the cheap piece of crap you currently have instead of working the weeks on end it takes to afford all the new shiny doo-dads (like all the greats did when they started) you'd get alot further
There isn't a person alive that cannot sit down and shoot my Volquartsen Summit 22lr better than my Ruger 10/22. Both are set up for long range target shooting, but the Volquartsen is purpose built, while the Ruger is various random parts.
Same goes for my Browning X-Bolt 2, 7mm PRC. You cannot build a Winchester 700 or Ruger American that will outshooot it. The Win and Ruger would not be a Win or Ruger with all the parts you'd have to replace.
Anyways, there is the end of my knowledge level in this thread.
Oh don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying there aren't guns or guitars that are objectively better than others. Just that I generally believe most people will become better shooters by buying a $200 Ruger then spending the other $1300 on ammo and range time instead of $1500 on a (badass) Volquartsen that mostly sits in the safe never getting a scratch lolYou had me up until the rifle thing....because it's thd only thing in this thread I know anything about.
There isn't a person alive that cannot sit down and shoot my Volquartsen Summit 22lr better than my Ruger 10/22. Both are set up for long range target shooting, but the Volquartsen is purpose built, while the Ruger is various random parts.
Same goes for my Browning X-Bolt 2, 7mm PRC. You cannot build a Winchester 700 or Ruger American that will outshooot it. The Win and Ruger would not be a Win or Ruger with all the parts you'd have to replace.
Anyways, there is the end of my knowledge level in this thread.
I often think of pipes in relation to the guitar world. Between survivorship bias and mystique, the vintage guitar market has a created an image of untouchable and unreproducible magic in those old guitars. But people who've played a lot of them will tell you there were terrible guitars back in the golden age of guitars too.
I don't pretend to understand it but just like pipes, sometimes a piece of wood has something special in it. There are other factors at play in both instances with curing and drilling of pipes, but I don't necessarily think an older pipe will smoke better than a recently made pipe. Every pipe could be that magical one that smokes a blend you love significantly better than any other pipe. And this fact is terrible for my incurable case of PAD.
I don't pretend to understand it but just like pipes, sometimes a piece of wood has something special in it. There are other factors at play in both instances with curing and drilling of pipes, but I don't necessarily think an older pipe will smoke better than a recently made pipe. Every pipe could be that magical one that smokes a blend you love significantly better than any other pipe. And this fact is terrible for my incurable case of PAD.
Here’s an especially Marxy Marxman Jumbo B with Imported Briar stamp.
Except for very early and very late production at 27 W 24 NYC 10 NY it’s impossible to date the pipes Bob and Helen Marx made.
But that’s pure mojo seeping out of that ancient Algerian briar.
A “B” stamped pipe was $7.50 in a universe of perfectly good dollar or dollar and a half pipes. That pipe shipped a light shade of tan and only smoking it turned it oxblood.
It’s a rare privilege to smoke these survivors.
Look how short the shank is.
Maybe Louis Cowan himself selected that briar and stemmed it by hand, while Woody Guthrie was singing Pretty Boy Floyd
You could not cheat folks in the Depression Era. The goods sold had to be worth the price charged.
Except for very early and very late production at 27 W 24 NYC 10 NY it’s impossible to date the pipes Bob and Helen Marx made.
But that’s pure mojo seeping out of that ancient Algerian briar.
A “B” stamped pipe was $7.50 in a universe of perfectly good dollar or dollar and a half pipes. That pipe shipped a light shade of tan and only smoking it turned it oxblood.
It’s a rare privilege to smoke these survivors.
Look how short the shank is.
Maybe Louis Cowan himself selected that briar and stemmed it by hand, while Woody Guthrie was singing Pretty Boy Floyd
You could not cheat folks in the Depression Era. The goods sold had to be worth the price charged.
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Ive had guys/gals on my range who have fallen in love with target shooting because they tried higher end rifles. One guy recently told me he has been using his 10/22 for squirrel hunting for 4 decades. After 20 minutes on the range, he asked what kind of magic was in this Volquartsen? Just good parts with tight tolerances. 1 MOA groups at 100 yards.....repeatedly. No 10/22 can do that without making it 90% NOT a 10/22. In my experience the diminishing returns start at about $2000 with a rifle. You can build a world class hunting/target rifle for $2000. After that, you're just adding fluff. But, in my experience, a better tool makes for a better shooter.
Ive talked to a lot of former military guys who were amazed how accurate and slick a quality AR is when their only experience previously was with the m4s we trained them with in the Army. I hear, "why didn't we have these??" a lot.
Again I'm not saying better tools don't produce better results with all else being equal. Just that in my experience the vast majority of guys like using that as an excuse as to why they need to spend thousands on the next new toy instead of just actually using the ones they already have to develop the necessary skillsIve had guys/gals on my range who have fallen in love with target shooting because they tried higher end rifles. One guy recently told me he has been using his 10/22 for squirrel hunting for 4 decades. After 20 minutes on the range, he asked what kind of magic was in this Volquartsen? Just good parts with tight tolerances. 1 MOA groups at 100 yards.....repeatedly. No 10/22 can do that without making it 90% NOT a 10/22. In my experience the diminishing returns start at about $2000 with a rifle. You can build a world class hunting/target rifle for $2000. After that, you're just adding fluff. But, in my experience, a better tool makes for a better shooter.
Ive talked to a lot of former military guys who were amazed how accurate and slick a quality AR is when their only experience previously was with the m4s we trained them with in the Army. I hear, "why didn't we have these??" a lot.
I agree with you one hundred percent. A lot of it is name and PR. That's why I really like the pipes of Italian masters who make their pipes by hand (while I have many factory Peterson pipes). For example, Mario Pascucci says he always has 700-800 briar blanks in stock that he personally selects.
I agree to a point and in many situations. I own a gun shop, believe me, I know all the excuses.
But, firearms are one area where buying a better tool will give better results 100% of the time.
The best shooter on the planet cannot make a 10/22 shoot more accurate than a purpose built target rifle. The 10/22 barrels just aren't built that way. They warp over time and warp with the heat of repeated firing.
Not to mention the trigger pull, ammo lock up and tolerances.
Ive been shooting competition rifle, pistol and cowboy action for nearly 30 years......dang I'm old when I think about that.
Anyways, there are major differences between entry level rifles and purpose built rifles....and pistols, that aren't only an option, but absolutely necessary.
I'm not talking about back yard plinking where 1-2 MOA doesn't make a difference. I'm talking 1/4 MOA at 100+ yards. I still use a stock $200 10/22 for small game all the time. My deer gun is a Mossberg 500 and my turkey gun is an $80 single shot NEF 12 gauge. I also hunt deer with black powder and handguns. But, through experience, when I'm hunting Elk, moose, goats or antelope at 300+ yards, I'm using my X-Bolt every time. When 2 inches matters at 400 yards, a Ruger American isn't the gun I want to bet on.
It's the same as saying a Toyota Prius can beat a Ferrari F4 if you just practice enough.
I'll say ive fired hundreds of thousands on rounds from a 10/22. That's 5 decades of use. But on day one with my first purpose built 22lr target rifle, I was shooting much better. Tight tolerances, properly floated barrel and meticulous finishing does make a marked difference.
Oh yeah, I can agree with most of that too. If I was gonna be competing or trying to dispatch an animal at range I'd want every advantage I can reasonably get.I agree to a point and in many situations. I own a gun shop, believe me, I know all the excuses.
But, firearms are one area where buying a better tool will give better results 100% of the time.
The best shooter on the planet cannot make a 10/22 shoot more accurate than a purpose built target rifle. The 10/22 barrels just aren't built that way. They warp over time and warp with the heat of repeated firing.
Not to mention the trigger pull, ammo lock up and tolerances.
Ive been shooting competition rifle, pistol and cowboy action for nearly 30 years......dang I'm old when I think about that.
Anyways, there are major differences between entry level rifles and purpose built rifles....and pistols, that aren't only an option, but absolutely necessary.
I'm not talking about back yard plinking where 1-2 MOA doesn't make a difference. I'm talking 1/4 MOA at 100+ yards. I still use a stock $200 10/22 for small game all the time. My deer gun is a Mossberg 500 and my turkey gun is an $80 single shot NEF 12 gauge. I also hunt deer with black powder and handguns. But, through experience, when I'm hunting Elk, moose, goats or antelope at 300+ yards, I'm using my X-Bolt every time. When 2 inches matters at 400 yards, a Ruger American isn't the gun I want to bet on.
It's the same as saying a Toyota Prius can beat a Ferrari F4 if you just practice enough.
I'll say ive fired hundreds of thousands on rounds from a 10/22. That's 5 decades of use. But on day one with my first purpose built 22lr target rifle, I was shooting much better. Tight tolerances, properly floated barrel and meticulous finishing does make a marked difference.
Just like @Briar Lee always mentions with his old estate pipes tho, there are also are usually some exceptions to the notion that "more money always = better equipment" if ya know what you're doin.
Most of the time the better stuff does cost more but I also have old $600 Swiss military rifles that were built and hand-fitted to rival many things costing 3-5x as much even today.
We're only a state away.. Maybe one of these days after I get my land I can visit your shop (even if i can only buy accessories lol) then we can barter for some of those rare duck eggs too
I love that one with the green btw, he reminds me of a mallard
This is one of the things that's killed it for me. Engineering discussions of something that is functionally no different than a drinking straw.
You may be correct on broken in briar pipes.
Here’s what I think the best counter argument to it’s the briar not construction.
Remove the stem of your favorite pipe and smoke it.
I still believe the briar has more to do with it, but construction matters as well.
Actually I dont and I wont.
More fixed delusions.
If I’m right, it’s for the same reasons the next bottle of bourbon you buy is aged in carefully selected brand new charred white oak barrels.
My father had to milk 25 cows twice a day and clean the milk barn four times a day, and crop 370 acres.
Harry Hosterman on the other hand, had the gift of selecting stave bolt grade white oaks, that the stave bolt inspectors at Lebanon would pass through the gates and not turn away.
Sometimes Harry would take me, under threat of death from my mother and Wilda Mae if I didn’t come back in as good of shape as when they entrusted me to him, and how he did it was just a mystery, and he couldn’t explain how.
He’d say they want the ones where the sap tastes good to those poor people who are hooked on booze.
If the Algerian briar inspectors were half as tough as stave bolt inspectors for us poor people hooked on nicotine, that explains why, but not how.
My father had to milk 25 cows twice a day and clean the milk barn four times a day, and crop 370 acres.
Harry Hosterman on the other hand, had the gift of selecting stave bolt grade white oaks, that the stave bolt inspectors at Lebanon would pass through the gates and not turn away.
Sometimes Harry would take me, under threat of death from my mother and Wilda Mae if I didn’t come back in as good of shape as when they entrusted me to him, and how he did it was just a mystery, and he couldn’t explain how.
He’d say they want the ones where the sap tastes good to those poor people who are hooked on booze.
If the Algerian briar inspectors were half as tough as stave bolt inspectors for us poor people hooked on nicotine, that explains why, but not how.
You can have as many eggs as you can carry. With dozens of birds, my wife and I are all egged out.Oh yeah, I can agree with most of that too. If I was gonna be competing or trying to dispatch an animal at range I'd want every advantage I can reasonably get.
Just like @Briar Lee always mentions with his old estate pipes tho, there are also are usually some exceptions to the notion that "more money always = better equipment" if ya know what you're doin.
Most of the time the better stuff does cost more but I also have old $600 Swiss military rifles that were built and hand-fitted to rival many things costing 3-5x as much even today.
We're only a state away.. Maybe one of these days after I get my land I can visit your shop (even if i can only buy accessories lol) then we can barter for some of those rare duck eggs too
I love that one with the green btw, he reminds me of a mallard
We also sell hunting cloths, boots, reloading supplies, bows and supplies, animal feed......and tons more.
Oh yeah, I can agree with most of that too. If I was gonna be competing or trying to dispatch an animal at range I'd want every advantage I can reasonably get.
Just like @Briar Lee always mentions with his old estate pipes tho, there are also are usually some exceptions to the notion that "more money always = better equipment" if ya know what you're doin.
Most of the time the better stuff does cost more but I also have old $600 Swiss military rifles that were built and hand-fitted to rival many things costing 3-5x as much even today.
We're only a state away.. Maybe one of these days after I get my land I can visit your shop (even if i can only buy accessories lol) then we can barter for some of those rare duck eggs too
I love that one with the green btw, he reminds me of a mallard
I own an 1899 Oberendorf made Swedish Mauser the metal parts look like they were made by German elves and sprinkled with fairy dust.
Which is one of the reasons the Germans lost two wars to the Allies who built war finished weapons.
On the flip side of that, I own a 1942 (must have been very early 1942) Winchester Model 12 standard field grade that looks like it was made by Yankee elves in New Haven.
Yesterday I got in an unbranded Marxman Benchmade that had to have sold for less than a branded $5 Benchmade.
Americans can make beautifully finshed goods.
People won’t pay, for that high grade of finish when cheaper works as well.
Ever see a new Savage?
It outshoots the old Savage 99 but it’s not as pretty.
Not to mention the fact that the Germans loved having a military with 137 models of transport truck from 14 different countries and (at any give time) 189 different models/generations of tank solely from their own country... and they literally serialized every part that went into making them... lol.I own an 1899 Oberendorf made Swedish Mauser the metal parts look like they were made by German elves and sprinkled with fairy dust.
Which is one of the reasons the Germans lost two wars to the Allies who built war finished weapons.
In WW2 they actually rejected the idea of standardization because mass production and capitalism were too "Jewish" whereas the Nazi high command (at least until Speer got in) thought that the cottage style specialist/craftsman (start-to-finish) production method was inherently more Deutsches-Volk... romanticized in almost a Tolkien-esque way...
I have a 1900's Oberndorf M96 as well, they're incredible rifles. (The 19th century 6.5 Creedmoor
) One of the oldest pieces in my collection. Fun fact.. Sweden actually shipped their steel to Germany to be used for the forgings under their contract provisions with Mauser Waffenfabrik as it's superiority was known... although at the time not understood. Turns out their country's natural iron ore deposits also contained the trace metal and rare earth elements in (more or less) the proper percentages that our most advanced metallurgical scientists today know offer enhanced strength and performance to forged steel.