Rogue One: Feminist Revistionist Crap

[warren]

From Bambi to True Grit, to Apollo Thirteen, I've never taken anything from "Hollywood" in a serious vein. I have trouble understanding why anyone would. They are movies for crying out loud! Flights of fancy! Movie making is serious business, involving serious moneys but, the product? I don't think so. That's why is called entertainment.

 

[tmb152]

@tmb. I didn't ask for condescension. I asked for citations that I could then go and read. If you are unable to give them you fact becomes an opinion.

No condescension or anger was intended or implied. I just don't have time to do a research project to provide citations on stuff that is fairly easily found on one's own, nor did I expect to get flamed and put on the defense for making the few statements I made. This is pretty basic stuff. I am not retired with loads of free time.
But as stated on another thread, the point to having a general discussion thread is so people CAN share differing views! Not be hit over the head with insults for them, even if they are way wrong. They may be way wrong or you just might THINK they are way wrong. Either way, people are entitled to their opinions.
If people are going to be attacked / insulted for offering differing views, not only are you going contrary to the wishes of the forum owner, you suppress others from giving their views. Less views equals fewer posts. Then people leave. Does anyone really think this is a good time to discourage folks from joining / participating in the pipe/tobacco industry?
The person you chase away just might be the next best person to go before the Fed and argue the laws in favor of the tobacco industry.
Something to think about.

 

[perdurabo]

Dochudson, it really only took: Yes I think the Disney SW revamp is using women as main character in some form of feminist play, or no that's a silly idea they are not. But you know, I couldn't help myself to see who would fall over themselves placing boxes in a row, then watch the segregation begin.
Why would a movie be taken serious? I don't know. Warren's comment pretty much sums it up.
Tmb, it really is an art, sometimes you just don't post when you can't handle reality. I'll never tame language for the masses. I don't expect anyone else to tame language either. This forum medium can't be taken personal.

 

[deathmetal]

Movie making is serious business, involving serious moneys but, the product? I don't think so. That's why is called entertainment.

Well-said and a good reminder for us all, I think. It makes me feel slightly better about avoiding "deep" movies as a whole and turning to the blood 'n guts, violence, mayhem and gratuitous sex and violence.
Someone else said something worth attending to:

He continued: “I have to say that I felt that George’s group of six films had more innovative visual imagination.
“This film was more of a retrenchment to things you had seen before and characters you have seen before and it took a few baby steps forward with new characters.
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/684465/James-Cameron-SLAMS-Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-George-Lucas-JJ-Abrams-Titanic-Avatar

In my view, the original film was quite a bit of good fun and well-written. Everything since I can live without. But that's usually how it is with sequels, isn't it?

 

[perdurabo]

Of Course, Disney will do anything to retain the sales of SW7, I think Rogue One will perform well. The Disney Board will be happy, until the audience has become bored. Which I'm afraid will happen fast.
Speaking of sequels, Alice in Wonderland sucked, IMHO, but the sequel was done quite well and was far more entertaining. With this story we have a strong female lead, she does a very good job with the role in both movies. :D

 

[perdurabo]

James Cameron comes out and slams SW7, with praise for the original six films. Not surprising.

 

[brian64]

Some movies are pure fantasy...some are intentional propaganda...and some contain a lot of truth and reality.
If you want to avoid the truth and reality and stick only to fantasy and propaganda, just watch the corporate news media.

 

[perdurabo]

Brian :rofl:

 

[tmb152]

I'm using free speech to bitch about Disney utterly destroying the Star Wars saga.

Getting back to what this thread is really supposed to be about, I did watch the movie trailers earlier and read a lot of reviews, including spoilers. By far, the vast majority thought the movie a glorious success, but then, most people would who are fans of all things Star Wars. What I found more interesting was the smaller percentage of detractors who among other things (spoiler alert), found nothing new in the movie, just a rehash of old characters, plots and vehicles. It was a case of been there done that before, and while I cannot say I saw anything great about the female lead in the trailer, what was so special about Mark Hamel? In the end, it seems that the main point of the movie was to open it back up to a whole new series of movies, and if this first one wasn't so great, maybe future ones will be better now that they are free of tying the past into the present. One thing certain is that Disney will make a lot of money.

 

[deathmetal]

Some movies are pure fantasy...some are intentional propaganda...and some contain a lot of truth and reality.

I bet they fit the distribution curve:
Pure Fantasy -- 90%
Intentional Propaganda -- 9%
Truth and Reality -- 1%

 

[warren]

I've not found a "Hollywood" movie to ever be entirely truthful or particularly factual, even so called documentaries. I think such a movie would be an impossibility given the number of people involved in making a movie with all of the different perspectives and goals. Writers and screenwriters have biases, directors have a certain vision, actors and actresses interpret, investors have expectations to be met and, above all, the audience must be entertained. The entertainment aspect is the driver, boring facts and incidents are omitted, time is compressed (imagine the Alamo, in real time, with all of the tedious waiting). There is a reason a story board is called a story board. They tell stories, some based on factual events or real people but, in the end, they are flights of fancy, products of perceptions and visions all designed to amuse or divert.

 

[deathmetal]

Warren, I think that is astute. Art is necessarily symbolic, as is entertainment. With entertainment, the audience comes first, where with art, profundity/beauty does. Thus, movies are a distraction, but not something we should derive wisdom from. Really good post. It makes me embarrassed by my own frequent sh!tposting.

 

[jefff]

In the end, we all choose what we want to believe.

 

[deathmetal]

...but the question remains whether it is real or not, because that which is not real is unsatisfying.

 

[brian64]

I bet they fit the distribution curve:
Pure Fantasy -- 90%
Intentional Propaganda -- 9%
Truth and Reality -- 1%

A lot of movies are actually a combination of these things. Often the basic storyline is fantasy, but there are truths within it...sometimes metaphorical or symbolic in nature. Take LOTR for example...certainly fantasy, but also contains much truth and reality concerning the nature of power and human nature.
I've seen quite a few good movies over the years that were very entertaining and at the same time contained a lot of truth and reality, IMO. But perhaps I watch different movies than most people (the ones I'm referring to were mostly not the big commercial, mainstream films).
Also, my perception of reality and history do not conform to the prevailing, official consensus of these things, so I'm used to being in the minority viewpoint.

 

[perdurabo]

Warren that's about as objective as one could be, with a very subjective statement that I made. No one person sat around and said "The New Star Wars will be as feminist as we can possibly make it." Great post.
When I discovered friends (male and female) that thought the female lead was being overused, felt like it would bring interesting conversation here. Guess it did. :rofl:

 

[deathmetal]

Take LOTR for example...certainly fantasy, but also contains much truth and reality concerning the nature of power and human nature.

That is very true. Almost like literature or something.

 

[brian64]

A lot of films are based on literature...directly or indirectly.

 

[perdurabo]

I like literature.

 

[perdurabo]

Films are Flimsy.