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Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
I agree with you that at least 98% of those saying that they are super tasters are only imagining that they are, the remaining 2% truly are. I knew a man named Roy Daniel who was for many years, the head chef at the Knickerbocker club and the personal chef to John Rockefeller. He was a super taster. One night while catering a party in New York for a meeting of the most notable wine sommeliers of the time, a very old and obscure bottle of wine was brought out for the group to identify. It was meant to be a fun challenge to see who had any recollection of it. Every sommelier tried but failed, to pinpoint the exact name of this wine. Mr. Daniel was out on the floor doing his job when, because of his reputation and high esteem, was asked if he would like to guess at the wine? He took a glass of the wine off the tray, gave it a whirl and sniff, and with one taste he said “Oh yes, I know this wine! I had a glass of it 10 years ago at the club.” and he rattled off not only the name, but the vintage of the wine as well (which I do not remember), much to everyone's astonishment. Roy was a super taster and a most endearing man. I miss him terribly since his passing (but I digress).

They do exist, but they are few and far between.

It’s like those people with incredible eyesight.

My favorite story is when they gave three professional wine tasters a blind taste test of three glasses each of the same mid-grade wine, and they rated all three differently. If I remember correctly, one even declared that wine A was awful, while wine C was clearly high-class...

As far as Perique goes, if it goes, it goes. I’m not worried. Or even sure it’s going anywhere.
 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
10,054
16,126
One important step people miss about perique is the fermentation aspect. Lots of tobacco is pressed and matured, so that's only half the story. What really separates perique from most other varietals is the collection and subsequent fermentation of the squeezed tobacco juices into carboys (glass fermentation vessels). This juice naturally ferments with local wild microbes (part of the reason Perique is a regional product only, like Belgian beer and French wine, it's more about the local microbes than just the soil). The resultant "tobacco wine" is maybe closer to "tobacco vinegar", as the wild microbes quickly convert any alcohol produced directly into acetic and lactic acid. This fermented juice is added back to the tobacco as it's pulled from and repacked into the barrel so the entire batch can referment with the juice that already has a head start and is now "trained" on tobacco sugars. Because the juice was squeezed from the tobacco, fermented, then added back, the Perique "wine" isn't considered an additive, just a process.
Other tobaccos used to go through a similar process. I believe putting African VAs through this process was the original way now unique tobaccos such as Royal Yacht or Germains Brown Flake were created. Also the reason so many old timey straight VAs are now VaPers or have a "light plum or apricot topping". A touch of perique or a plum topping mimics the natural fermentation flavors that used to be common in hogshead pressed dark VAs.
Very interesting.

I think @jiminks should add "wild microbes" to his tobacco review lexicon.
 

rushx9

Lifer
Jul 10, 2019
2,299
17,245
43
Shelby, NC
Very interesting.

I think @jiminks should add "wild microbes" to his tobacco review lexicon.
I tried to avoid using the term "wild yeasts" because there's a lot more than just saccharomyces going on, but getting into the specific strains of lactobacillus, pediococcus, acetobacter, brettanomyces, and other various microbes involved should probably be saved for a dedicated whole-ass thread?
 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,192
5,116
I always liked perique, liked it enough to order 3 lbs from Percy Martin. Decided that I didn't want the stems so embarked on that task, and as after 6 hours I had finished so little I decided that the stems could stay. Chopped it up and jarred it, where it sat unused for a few years, and sold it.
 

jeremyreeves

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 14, 2015
145
898
Hey, fellas! I go to St. James Parish to hand select barrels of Perique 2 to 3 times a year. I know many of the farmers in St. James, and have visited their farms and seen their crops and been in their homes. I have seen the process, through many various stages. I’ve stripped leaf at Poche with Mark Ryan and the rest of the workers. I’ve helped roll bunches, called “cah-rahts”, to be packed into barrels. I’ve helped with turning barrels, a particularly laborious process which is done multiple times throughout the year that the tobacco spends in the barrel. Making Perique is hard work. Most people wouldn’t do it. It is hardly surprising that manufacturers don’t make their own Perique when one sees the process and the constant attention and troubleshooting involved to keep from having quality issues.

Perique is not made anywhere outside of St. James. There’s a product from Brazil called Arapiraca, which is sometimes compared to Perique but it is not that similar. Someone here said Perique is a marketing term. Perhaps, in the same way that Chocolate, or Wool or Steel are marketing terms. These are terms to communicate what materials are used in a product, what the end user can expect the product to be like. Perique is a specific tobacco type and quality that is produced through a specific, unique and labor intensive process and the results of this process are totally unlike anything else in tobacco, that I’ve ever seen.

A few other points worth noting:

Mark has one small barn where he processes Dark Fired Kentucky in barrels, under extreme pressure, like Perique. The results are totally unique and the sole customer for this product is a very well known cigar manufacturer. There is none of this Dark Fired that is used in Perique and it is not called Perique. It is called Cajun Black. Years ago, McClelland used some in a handful of blends.

The crop grown in St. James Parish is not enough to fill demand and this has been the case for decades. Not just the last few years. Mark Ryan found that back into the 20’s and 30’s the accounting books at Poche Farms show that they were supplementing St. James leaf shortages using Dark Air Cured from TN, KY or Canada, depending on the availability and quality available. The vast majority of pure St. James Perique is being used in American Spirit Perique cigarettes, due to exclusive contract with one processor. It’s been that way for a long time. Years. What is available for use in pipe tobacco currently, is often, though not always, comprised of a blend of St. James leaf and leaf from TN, KY, of Canada. The imported leaf used is very similar to the St. James leaf, which is basically a Dark Air Cured type. Not Dark Fired, Dark Air Cured.

The blending is done at the end of the Perique process, once the two products are nearly indistinguishable. Again, I’ve personally seen all of this. St. James is wet, hand stripped, rolled, packed and pressed into bourbon barrels separately from imported leaf which goes through the same process. Once they are in very nearly the same range of aroma, flavor and color, they are blended together into a barrel, pressed down under many tons of pressure and then capped for about 3 months. None of this blending practice is new or recent.

Lastly, Latakia is produced by hanging small, oily tobacco leaves over a smoldering fire that must be maintained for 5 to 6 months. This is an incredibly wild process. Dark Fired is usually done in 14- 16 days and that is a very stressful and sleep deprived time for the farmers and their families. 5-6 months is just wild.

These kinds of extremely labor intensive tobacco processes are the reason that both Latakia and Perique are in short supply. If anyone could do it, that supply problem wouldn’t exist.
 

fightnhampster

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 14, 2019
943
2,678
Indiana
If I imagine while I am smoking things like figs, plums, citrus, and hay then yes , I can taste those things. The thing is, if I imagine while I am smoking the smell of a woman's skin, her hair, lips, and the sweetness of her kiss, then guess what? That is what I taste. I am beginning to think all of these so-called super tasters are...

I do taste different things in different blends. Its not all, or even mostly, imagined.

There is such a thing as palate training, getting yourself attuned to different notes withing a blend, wine, beer, coffee or bourbon.

That being said, if one is happy with blend without seeking out or noticing the layers of depth then more power to them.

Example:
One person can watch a Bugs Bunny cartoon and laugh and enjoy it because of the antics. Another sitting next to them can laugh just as much because of the antics AND the references to WWII or 40's culture that are present. One is not "better" than the other. Its just different.

It is good to avoid pitting one type of pipe smoker against another. Its just unhelpful.
 
Hey, fellas! I go to St. James Parish to hand select barrels of Perique 2 to 3 times a year. I know many of the farmers in St. James, and have visited their farms and seen their crops and been in their homes. I have seen the process, through many various stages. I’ve stripped leaf at Poche with Mark Ryan and the rest of the workers. I’ve helped roll bunches, called “cah-rahts”, to be packed into barrels. I’ve helped with turning barrels, a particularly laborious process which is done multiple times throughout the year that the tobacco spends in the barrel. Making Perique is hard work. Most people wouldn’t do it. It is hardly surprising that manufacturers don’t make their own Perique when one sees the process and the constant attention and troubleshooting involved to keep from having quality issues.

Perique is not made anywhere outside of St. James. There’s a product from Brazil called Arapiraca, which is sometimes compared to Perique but it is not that similar. Someone here said Perique is a marketing term. Perhaps, in the same way that Chocolate, or Wool or Steel are marketing terms. These are terms to communicate what materials are used in a product, what the end user can expect the product to be like. Perique is a specific tobacco type and quality that is produced through a specific, unique and labor intensive process and the results of this process are totally unlike anything else in tobacco, that I’ve ever seen.

A few other points worth noting:

Mark has one small barn where he processes Dark Fired Kentucky in barrels, under extreme pressure, like Perique. The results are totally unique and the sole customer for this product is a very well known cigar manufacturer. There is none of this Dark Fired that is used in Perique and it is not called Perique. It is called Cajun Black. Years ago, McClelland used some in a handful of blends.

The crop grown in St. James Parish is not enough to fill demand and this has been the case for decades. Not just the last few years. Mark Ryan found that back into the 20’s and 30’s the accounting books at Poche Farms show that they were supplementing St. James leaf shortages using Dark Air Cured from TN, KY or Canada, depending on the availability and quality available. The vast majority of pure St. James Perique is being used in American Spirit Perique cigarettes, due to exclusive contract with one processor. It’s been that way for a long time. Years. What is available for use in pipe tobacco currently, is often, though not always, comprised of a blend of St. James leaf and leaf from TN, KY, of Canada. The imported leaf used is very similar to the St. James leaf, which is basically a Dark Air Cured type. Not Dark Fired, Dark Air Cured.

The blending is done at the end of the Perique process, once the two products are nearly indistinguishable. Again, I’ve personally seen all of this. St. James is wet, hand stripped, rolled, packed and pressed into bourbon barrels separately from imported leaf which goes through the same process. Once they are in very nearly the same range of aroma, flavor and color, they are blended together into a barrel, pressed down under many tons of pressure and then capped for about 3 months. None of this blending practice is new or recent.

Lastly, Latakia is produced by hanging small, oily tobacco leaves over a smoldering fire that must be maintained for 5 to 6 months. This is an incredibly wild process. Dark Fired is usually done in 14- 16 days and that is a very stressful and sleep deprived time for the farmers and their families. 5-6 months is just wild.

These kinds of extremely labor intensive tobacco processes are the reason that both Latakia and Perique are in short supply. If anyone could do it, that supply problem wouldn’t exist.
Thank you, you’ve more eloquently elaborated on what I was paraphrasing.
Although, I don’t mind doing the hand stripping. I’m just glad I don’t have to do it to make bank. puffy
I may be wrong, but werent there at least a few places making perique outside of St James. Seems like I remember seeing them on a map Russ Ouellette posted when he released his RO line of different VaPers. But, maybe I’m just remembering wrong.
 

spicy_boiii

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 5, 2020
592
2,739
Bay Area, California
Hey, fellas! I go to St. James Parish....

Please stick around, your posts are needed around here.

I'd be really interested in some hard numbers as to pipe tobacco sales trends and whether increases in sales may potentially contribute to the perique shortage. I'm sure for some of the companies like K&K, the situation and resulting perique decisions are more complicated.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
4,259
12,604
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
Hey, fellas! I go to St. James Parish to hand select barrels of Perique 2 to 3 times a year. I know many of the farmers in St. James, and have visited their farms and seen their crops and been in their homes. I have seen the process, through many various stages. I’ve stripped leaf at Poche with Mark Ryan and the rest of the workers. I’ve helped roll bunches, called “cah-rahts”, to be packed into barrels. I’ve helped with turning barrels, a particularly laborious process which is done multiple times throughout the year that the tobacco spends in the barrel. Making Perique is hard work. Most people wouldn’t do it. It is hardly surprising that manufacturers don’t make their own Perique when one sees the process and the constant attention and troubleshooting involved to keep from having quality issues.

Perique is not made anywhere outside of St. James. There’s a product from Brazil called Arapiraca, which is sometimes compared to Perique but it is not that similar. Someone here said Perique is a marketing term. Perhaps, in the same way that Chocolate, or Wool or Steel are marketing terms. These are terms to communicate what materials are used in a product, what the end user can expect the product to be like. Perique is a specific tobacco type and quality that is produced through a specific, unique and labor intensive process and the results of this process are totally unlike anything else in tobacco, that I’ve ever seen.

A few other points worth noting:

Mark has one small barn where he processes Dark Fired Kentucky in barrels, under extreme pressure, like Perique. The results are totally unique and the sole customer for this product is a very well known cigar manufacturer. There is none of this Dark Fired that is used in Perique and it is not called Perique. It is called Cajun Black. Years ago, McClelland used some in a handful of blends.

The crop grown in St. James Parish is not enough to fill demand and this has been the case for decades. Not just the last few years. Mark Ryan found that back into the 20’s and 30’s the accounting books at Poche Farms show that they were supplementing St. James leaf shortages using Dark Air Cured from TN, KY or Canada, depending on the availability and quality available. The vast majority of pure St. James Perique is being used in American Spirit Perique cigarettes, due to exclusive contract with one processor. It’s been that way for a long time. Years. What is available for use in pipe tobacco currently, is often, though not always, comprised of a blend of St. James leaf and leaf from TN, KY, of Canada. The imported leaf used is very similar to the St. James leaf, which is basically a Dark Air Cured type. Not Dark Fired, Dark Air Cured.

The blending is done at the end of the Perique process, once the two products are nearly indistinguishable. Again, I’ve personally seen all of this. St. James is wet, hand stripped, rolled, packed and pressed into bourbon barrels separately from imported leaf which goes through the same process. Once they are in very nearly the same range of aroma, flavor and color, they are blended together into a barrel, pressed down under many tons of pressure and then capped for about 3 months. None of this blending practice is new or recent.

Lastly, Latakia is produced by hanging small, oily tobacco leaves over a smoldering fire that must be maintained for 5 to 6 months. This is an incredibly wild process. Dark Fired is usually done in 14- 16 days and that is a very stressful and sleep deprived time for the farmers and their families. 5-6 months is just wild.

These kinds of extremely labor intensive tobacco processes are the reason that both Latakia and Perique are in short supply. If anyone could do it, that supply problem wouldn’t exist.
Jeremy, a post from someone who actually knows what he's talking about! You're raising standards way above what most of us can bear! Thank you, sir! bdw
 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,581
Hey, fellas! I go to St. James Parish to hand select barrels of Perique 2 to 3 times a year. I know many of the farmers in St. James, and have visited their farms and seen their crops and been in their homes. I have seen the process, through many various stages. I’ve stripped leaf at Poche with Mark Ryan and the rest of the workers. I’ve helped roll bunches, called “cah-rahts”, to be packed into barrels. I’ve helped with turning barrels, a particularly laborious process which is done multiple times throughout the year that the tobacco spends in the barrel. Making Perique is hard work. Most people wouldn’t do it. It is hardly surprising that manufacturers don’t make their own Perique when one sees the process and the constant attention and troubleshooting involved to keep from having quality issues.

Perique is not made anywhere outside of St. James. There’s a product from Brazil called Arapiraca, which is sometimes compared to Perique but it is not that similar. Someone here said Perique is a marketing term. Perhaps, in the same way that Chocolate, or Wool or Steel are marketing terms. These are terms to communicate what materials are used in a product, what the end user can expect the product to be like. Perique is a specific tobacco type and quality that is produced through a specific, unique and labor intensive process and the results of this process are totally unlike anything else in tobacco, that I’ve ever seen.

A few other points worth noting:

Mark has one small barn where he processes Dark Fired Kentucky in barrels, under extreme pressure, like Perique. The results are totally unique and the sole customer for this product is a very well known cigar manufacturer. There is none of this Dark Fired that is used in Perique and it is not called Perique. It is called Cajun Black. Years ago, McClelland used some in a handful of blends.

The crop grown in St. James Parish is not enough to fill demand and this has been the case for decades. Not just the last few years. Mark Ryan found that back into the 20’s and 30’s the accounting books at Poche Farms show that they were supplementing St. James leaf shortages using Dark Air Cured from TN, KY or Canada, depending on the availability and quality available. The vast majority of pure St. James Perique is being used in American Spirit Perique cigarettes, due to exclusive contract with one processor. It’s been that way for a long time. Years. What is available for use in pipe tobacco currently, is often, though not always, comprised of a blend of St. James leaf and leaf from TN, KY, of Canada. The imported leaf used is very similar to the St. James leaf, which is basically a Dark Air Cured type. Not Dark Fired, Dark Air Cured.

The blending is done at the end of the Perique process, once the two products are nearly indistinguishable. Again, I’ve personally seen all of this. St. James is wet, hand stripped, rolled, packed and pressed into bourbon barrels separately from imported leaf which goes through the same process. Once they are in very nearly the same range of aroma, flavor and color, they are blended together into a barrel, pressed down under many tons of pressure and then capped for about 3 months. None of this blending practice is new or recent.

Lastly, Latakia is produced by hanging small, oily tobacco leaves over a smoldering fire that must be maintained for 5 to 6 months. This is an incredibly wild process. Dark Fired is usually done in 14- 16 days and that is a very stressful and sleep deprived time for the farmers and their families. 5-6 months is just wild.

These kinds of extremely labor intensive tobacco processes are the reason that both Latakia and Perique are in short supply. If anyone could do it, that supply problem wouldn’t exist.
Finally some first hand knowledge.
 

jeremyreeves

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 14, 2015
145
898
Thank you, you’ve more eloquently elaborated on what I was paraphrasing.
Although, I don’t mind doing the hand stripping. I’m just glad I don’t have to do it to make bank. puffy
I may be wrong, but werent there at least a few places making perique outside of St James. Seems like I remember seeing them on a map Russ Ouellette posted when he released his RO line of different VaPers. But, maybe I’m just remembering wrong.
You're welcome, Michael. I can understand people confusing Kentucky leaf with Dark Fired Kentucky, but there is a world of difference between Kentucky grown Dark Air Cured, which is very similar to the plants grown in St. James, and Dark Fired Kentucky which has been heavily smoke cured and has extreme levels of spice, smoke and strength.

The Russ Oullette series were based on very small samples from 4 different farmers that all sold their tobacco to Mark Ryan. The description from Russ, still visible on Pipes & CIgars website, states that these four samples all came from the "Golden Triangle" which refers to the pathway of the Mississippi River running through St. James Parish. At the apex of the the triangle is an area the locals call Grand Point. The point to the West is by Romeville and to the East is Gramercy. Most of the tobacco farmers growing Perique are located along the river within St. James and most of them are within this region. There are a handful of farmers outside St. James Parish, but there are currently only 2 licensed processors, Percy Martin and Poche Farms. Both of the processors, taking cured tobacco and making it into Perique are located in St. James Parish. Poche is in Convent, and Percy Martin is in Paulina. Remember, Louisiana doesn't have counties, they have parishes, so lots of little towns along the river are in the Parish. Lots of little farms, and rural villages that don't have spots on a map, but have colloquial names the locals call them by as well.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
It is good to avoid pitting one type of pipe smoker against another. Its just unhelpful.
No, if someone was pitting one type of pipe smoker against another, that would be unhelpful. But, I don't think that was what was going on.

I think it was good natured humor.

Although I do concede that the current condition of Americans seems to be humor is harmful and isn't helpful.

I was told that at a conference of science teachers.

My superpower is that I can smell human pheromones. I can tell you, just by standing next to any woman, who has and who hasn't gone through menopause. It's not a joke, it is very real.

Blind folded, I am able to identify women, from 15 away, so long as they haven't gone through menopause, who they are having met them only once.

This super power doesn't seem to be very helpful, but there it is, it is real.

But it is okay, I don't mind the jokes that follow. It does seem rather ridiculous. Accept when a woman passes me by, and she is real excreting pheromones. My mind goes blank and everything and anything I was thinking about just empties out of it. I don't have to see them - I just need to smell or sense them. It's like kryptonite.

So, put that in your pipe and smoke it. You know what I mean?
 
I agree with you that at least 98% of those saying that they are super tasters are only imagining that they are, the remaining 2% truly are. I knew a man named Roy Daniel who was for many years, the head chef at the Knickerbocker club and the personal chef to John Rockefeller. He was a super taster. One night while catering a party in New York for a meeting of the most notable wine sommeliers of the time, a very old and obscure bottle of wine was brought out for the group to identify. It was meant to be a fun challenge to see who had any recollection of it. Every sommelier tried but failed, to pinpoint the exact name of this wine. Mr. Daniel was out on the floor doing his job when, because of his reputation and high esteem, was asked if he would like to guess at the wine? He took a glass of the wine off the tray, gave it a whirl and sniff, and with one taste he said “Oh yes, I know this wine! I had a glass of it 10 years ago at the club.” and he rattled off not only the name, but the vintage of the wine as well (which I do not remember), much to everyone's astonishment. Roy was a super taster and a most endearing man. I miss him terribly since his passing (but I digress).

They do exist, but they are few and far between.
According to Healthline, one in four (25%) people qualify as supertasters. Supertaster: Definition, Benefits, and Drawbacks - https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/supertaster#who-is-a-supertaster

I usually spot them easily at wine tastings. They’re the ones who don’t have a confused look on their faces.
 

fightnhampster

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 14, 2019
943
2,678
Indiana
The Russ Oullette series were based on very small samples from 4 different farmers that all sold their tobacco to Mark Ryan. The description from Russ, still visible on Pipes & CIgars website, states that these four samples all came from the "Golden Triangle" which refers to the pathway of the Mississippi River running through St. James Parish.

The Golden Triangle series of tobaccos were great. Coincidentally I had a bowl of Belmont (my favorite one) last night. That was a fun set to smoke through. The only one I didn't nab was the one that had straight St. James in it.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
According to Healthline, one in four (25%) people qualify as supertasters. Supertaster: Definition, Benefits, and Drawbacks - https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/supertaster#who-is-a-supertaster

I usually spot them easily at wine tastings. They’re the ones who don’t have a confused look on their faces.
On any bell curve, around 2% stand out above the rest. Many can be trained, but the natural savants stand out on their own. In my 34 years of teaching, I met only one. The top 25 percent of which you refer to are better than average, but their abilities pale when compared to those in the top 2 or 1 percent. It becomes expedential what the top 1 can do. It is unbelievable what the top 1/10 or a percent are capable of doing. Being 1:4 may make someone feel good. So long as they don't have to compete with the top 2 or 1% let alone the 1/10 percent.
 
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On any bell curve, around 2% stand out above the rest. Many can be trained, but the natural savants stand out on their own. In my 34 years of teaching, I met only one. The top 25 percent of which you refer to are better than average, but their abilities pale when compared to those in the top 2 or 1 percent. It becomes expedential what the top 1 can do. It is unbelievable what the top 1/10 or a percent are capable of doing. Being 1:4 may make someone feel good. So long as they don't have to compete with the top 2 or 1% let alone the 1/10 percent.
Like you, I notice things too, like menapause. I can also smell deer in the woods, especially the does. And dozens of times I have smelled a snake underfoot before I’ve seen it.
I think that being a taster is one thing, but how developed you taste, smell, and memory is is key to making good use of it, olfactory hues.