Recommendations for Wagner?

[sparrowhawk]

I'm looking for an orchestral compilation of Wagner, but unfortunately never had a music appreciation class, so I don't know what collection to get, so perhaps there might be a music expert or student out there who can help. The collection should be purely instrumental (no singing), not bombastic (hard to do with Wagner I know) and should include his "Forest Murmurs" and the music played briefly in the film "Captain America: the first Avenger". I looked up the credits in the movie for that music and came up with two jawbreakers: "Trauermarch (Gotterdammerung-Dritter Tag Des Buhwenfestspiels 'Der Ring des Nibelungen/Dritter Aufzug" and "Szene 3 'Ein Schwert Verhieb Mir Der Vater (Der Walkure-Ester Tag Des Buhnenfest Spiels 'Der Ring Des Nibelungen/Erster Aufzug." Any recommendations?

 

[rmbittner]

I'm not a huge Wagner fan -- and less one after a recent trip to Germany, where we learned more about him! -- so I've only got one CD that I have for the sake of "covering the classical bases." It's kind of a Greatest Hits compilation called: "Wagner: Great Orchestral Music from 'The Ring.'" Performed by the Cleveland Symphony, conducted by George Szell. It's an older recording, so it won't have the kind of dynamic clarity you'll get from a contemporary digital recording, but it serves my purposes. And it has the famous "Ride of the Valkyries" theme, which was used so effectively in the movie "Apocalypse Now." Or you may know it as the "Kill the Wabbit" theme from a well-known Bugs Bunny cartoon.
It does include "Forest Murmurs."
To be honest, you might be best off just going to iTunes (I'm assuming) and looking at the Wagner available. I don't know how well you know conductors or orchestras, but that would give you the best overview of the vast majority of what's currently available. (Yes, some things are still only available on CD -- or even LP -- but I think iTunes should offer plenty of great options.)
Bob

 

[phil67]

Yeah, I'm not much of a Wagner fan either. I have over 100 albums of classical music and I believe out of that only one album of Wagner. It's quite old and I believe it's called 'The Fire of Wagner'. I was lucky enough to take a music appreciation class in high school in 1961. I remember my teacher quite well and he never held back any punches when he taught. Although Wagner was obviously quite talented he was, for all practical purposes, a real ass-wipe in his personal life and his beliefs. I know that talent should be kept separate from ones personal life, but that always gave me a sour taste when it came to his music.
Other than that, and as Bob suggested, iTunes might prove to be a good starting point and also possibly Amazon to obtain reviews. :wink:

 

[mso489]

I had an interesting conversation with a composer friend. I said I didn't like most of Wagner. I feel the music is

similar to an over-acted play where every line is shouted and there is no nuance or variation. He said he thinks

this has as much to do with the traditions of performing Wagner. The music was put across that way when he

was alive, and it made him famous. But when my friend reads the scores, he "hears" a whole different music,

which is more complex and nuanced. To borrow from the rock'n'roll culture, not all of the music produced by

Phil Spectre as "the wall of sound" has to be performed that way, and some of it improves if it isn't.

 

[owen]

Der Ring Ohne Worte CD with a digital download of Forrest Murmurs burnt on the end.

 

[owen]

and a bowl of Gawith Hogarth Best Brown

 

[condorlover1]

I do like a little bit of Wagner. The big blonde women with trash can bra's and that sort of stuff. The down side is that Wagner was a crazy anti-Semite who was extremely popular with that Charlie Chaplin look a like Adolf, the man who ruined it for anyone who ever craved a tooth brush mustache. Further more the operas last for hours or even days and the German language has no word for fluffy.

 

[ravkesef]

I am with Bob on my feelings regarding Wagner. He was definitely not a nice man, and he, his family, and his music had a significant impact on events of the Third Reich.

 

[tuold]

Wagner was an amazing composer, ever original,imaginative and dramatic. I listen to mostly Baroque and Renaissance music, but every summer I listen to the complete Ring Cycle, either at a live performance or DVD or CD. The part where Woton must strip his favorite daughter of her immortality and leave her in suspended animation surrounded by a wall of fire is a heartbreaking scene.
The "Magic Fire Music" is wonderful. If you make a study of all the lietmotifs before you listen, your mind will be blown at the end at how Wagner combines them all to provide background and insight in the character's actions. The orchestra is not merely background or accompaniment. It's part of the action.
Here's a video explaining lietmotifs: Met Opera Orchestra
And here's a good sampling of the Ring: Twilight of the Gods

 

[andrew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHs2coAzLJ8
Wagner rules, it's used in Triumph of the Will as the whole soundtrack I believe.

 

[phil67]

@tuold
sparrowhawk wrote:

The collection should be purely instrumental (no singing).

 

[tuold]

Most of the music for "Triumph of the Will" is by a composer named Herbert Windt. There is some Wagner tossed in there. But since Leni Riefenstahl wanted this to appeal to those who where otherwise non-political, she had Windt orchestrate some popular songs and marches everybody would know.
BTW, there is plenty of instrumental music in the collection I suggested. However, if you limit yourself to arrangements of vocal/choral works you are not listening to Wagner but somebody else's version of Wagner. I would never recommend listing to arrangements.

 

[phil67]

Wagner rules, it's used in Triumph of the Will as the whole soundtrack I believe.

From someone who has Joseph Stalin as their avatar that’s a rather ironic statement! :lol:

 

[tuold]

Ok, I don't want to come off as a classical music snob, so here is a link to some Wagner instrumental arrangements.
Marine Band Plays Wagner
The upside is the downloads are all free.
There. I violated my own principles for the sake of education and musical enjoyment.

They are pretty good arrangements ... considering.

 

[andrew]

Most of the music for "Triumph of the Will" is by a composer named Herbert Windt. There is some Wagner tossed in there. But since Leni Riefenstahl wanted this to appeal to those who where otherwise non-political, she had Windt orchestrate some popular songs and marches everybody would know.

+1, you do know your classical music. I would say I'm a classical music snob, it was the first music that inspired me, my grandfather had tons of it and would play it for me as a child. Then upon his death I received many of his records, which I still cherish. And Wagner was dead before the Nazi party even existed. But overall the film "triumph of the will" is regarded to this day as a masterpiece by any serious film critic, and is studied in film schools. You'll hear alot of Wagner in Bugs bunny cartoons.

 

[tuold]

Andrew, from what I read "TotW" was appreciated everywhere as a groundbreaking award winning political feature. However, now we look at now as a sort of evil promo film for Darth Vader and the Empire. Makes me wonder how history will judge some of the contemporary "propaganda as art" that passes for entertainment today.
And I suppose as far as music arrangements and my snobbery, maybe it's a similar thing as tobacco blends that try to copy others. The copy may be a good blend on its own but from what I read in these forums they often are not the same as the original.
The exception would be arrangements made by the original composer. Mozart arranged a lot his opera tunes for small bands in order to get a jump on unscrupulous publishers who wanted to capitalize on the popularity of his songs or arias. And Wagner did work some of the music from The Ring into the instrumental "Siegfried Idyll" for his wife.
So, I'm publicly loosening up on my misguided "no arrangements" edict. If it leads the listener back to the original at some point or inspires them to go deeper into classical music that would be a very good thing.

 

[agnosticpipe]

I like all kinds of classical music and have listened to a lot of it over the years. I'm no expert by any means, I just like the music. I've listened to a few of Wagners compositions, and have always enjoyed them. I'm not a big fan of listening to his complete operas, but do like excerpts from them. I've always tried to separate any composer's life from the music, as I enjoy the music no matter what kind of person they were, and have no regrets in doing so. One of my favorite recordings of Wagner is on a direct to disc recording done by Sheffield Labs in the late 1970s, featuring Erich Leinsdorf and the LA Philharmonic. It has a variety of Wagner opera excerpts, but is all instrumental. One of the most realistic recordings I've listened to, ever. I don't know if this recording was published on a CD or not, but I would think that at least some of the detail of the original would be there. It was Sheffield Lab 7.

 

[andrew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiVAg_f1k8I
Here's a good youtube compilation with forest murmurs, but also ride of the valkeries. I suggest just getting full symphonies if you're after Wagner with no boombastic added in, pretty much any compilation of his work is going to have it.
Personally I used to hate any classical with a choir but as I've grown older I've come to appreciate it. It's quite hard to find "best of" albums like you want specified to what you want. What I would do personally is take each song you want from youtube, and download it using a youtube downloader and make your own compilation, as what you're asking is practically impossible unless you make it yourself.
http://www.youtube-mp3.org/ Here is a free program to use that you just copy and paste the link into

 

[phil67]

Although I’ve loved classical music since I was about 16, much to the chagrin of some my friends at the time, I could never get into opera. The ironic thing is that my father, who drowned when I was only six months old, was an opera singer. Supposedly, from what my mother told me, is that we were very close to relocating to New York from Chicago as the New York Metropolitan Opera wished to hire him before his untimely death.
He had a very large collection of Enrico Caruso records (78rpm) bound in leather albums. When I was a teenager I took the time to catalog each and every one of them with every detail. Regretfully, they were all lost in a flood and at times I wonder what they would be worth in today’s market. I imagine, in some strange way, he is why I inherited my love for classical music, albeit I do not love all classical music for the sake of it being ‘classical’. After all, to use an apropos analogy on this site, that would be akin to loving all pipe tobacco simply because it was ‘pipe’ tobacco. I miss the time when I had season tickets to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, but then again, I could in no way afford them any longer.

 

[natibo]

It's funny, but I'm a huge classical music fan, but also not a lover of Wagner. Maybe pipe smokers just don't care for him. I listened to the entire ring cycle with a book companion to explain what was going on. It was fairly good, and I can see the similarities to the Lord of the Rings. However, he just does not hold a candle to Beethoven. But as my girlfriend will attest, my opinion is: there is Beethoven, and then everyone else.