Recent Charatan aquisitions

[puffermark]

Greetings, all.
I managed to bag a couple of Charatans recently. We hardly ever see them here in South Africa. One is a Special shape 47 and the other a Deluxe shape 33. Both look sound and I'm sure they should clean up nicely.
Once gain though I seek some assistance with dating. Both have CHARATAN'S MAKE over LONDON, ENGLAND over the grade name as can be seen in the pics below. Apologies for the quality as I grabbed them off the auction site. There is no sign nor mention of any MADE BY HAND stamp. Both have standard tapered stems and at least one has the CP stem logo with the C apparently intersecting the P. Any ideas?


Many thanks in advance.

 

[mawnansmiff]

With a bit of luck Ken Barnes will chime in, he's the forum expert on this brand.
The second pipe looks a cracker!
Regards,
Jay.

 

[dmcmtk]

Two classic Charatan's shapes.

 

[jensen]

A dublin and a bell dublin.

You are a happy man.

 

[paulfg]

If this is correct as they are tapered stems then pre 1960
https://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans
from a) From 1863 to 1960 the mouthpieces have a normal shape, saddle or tapered. From 1961 they use the 'Double Comfort' style still used today. By the way there are some saddle bits (without the double comfort) used in pipes that date after 1960 but these models are always characterized by a X (in the place of the DC) engraved after the shape number on the shank. This means that if a pipe has a tapered mouthpiece instead of a double comfort one, it is definitely a pre-Lane pipe before 1960. While if a pipe has a normal saddle bit stem, it could belong to every era. Nevertheless the pipe is pre 1961 if the shape code does not include an X, and is a pipe from after 1960 if the X is engraved.

Finally any pipe with the double comfort stem is definitely after 1960.

 

[kenbarnes]

Nice pipes! The de Luxe may well be 1950s - late 1950s and I think the Special quality could well be later.

The DC mouthpiece was designed by William Williamson-Barling in 1965-1966.

After the Barling Family let go of their business William did some 'short term consulting assignments' with other Pipe-makers and this was an example. This was the year my father joined Charatan and I did meet William once.

Dennis Marshall, who was the Production Manager of Charatan also came from Barling, where he first learnt the business. The DC mouthpiece was first patented in the US in 1966. It was designed in Nov 1964 Patented in Uk in April 1965 and then this US patent in January 1966

I hope this photo is readable.

 

[jpmcwjr]

The illustrations are good, but I can't make out the text. And I am not sure it would tell me the basis of the patent.....Can someone?

 

[mikestanley]

Does the patent explain why the stem was used in the first place? Anytime I find a Charatan w/ o one, I am interested. Nice find.

Mike S.

 

[sablebrush52]

The whole patent document is available through Google patents. If I remember correctly, the idea behind the double comfort stem was to offer a comfortably flat stem at the button while maintaining structural strength with the slightly thicker stem after the step up before the saddle.

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

Out of curiosity what is so special about this brand of pipes? I saw a YT video from the Chicago Pipe Show where a person was talking about Charatan pipes and that he was a "serious collector" and only collected 50's - 60's era Charatan pipes. They're nice looking pipes, but is there any significance to his line of pipes, or is it similar to how people collect Dunhill pipes? Just curious.

 

[mikestanley]

I would recommend you look for and read an article by Ivy Ryan to learn about Charatan's history. They used to be something. If you liked freehand pipes, they were probably the best of their time. Oddly enough, their purchase by Dunhill was the beginning of

the end.
Mike S.

 

[ssjones]

Serious Charatan collectors are a world unto themselves. To belong to the Collectors Society, you have to own five Charatans (I believe). They meet annually in Chicago, or did.

Dennis Congas (aka Mr. Charatan) is the collector I most often see at East Coast pipe shows.

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/pipe-collecting/international-charatan-collectors-society/

 

[puffermark]

Thanks so much for all the information and comments, folks. Truly appreciated, and nice to know at least one could be a pre-lane era. Can't wait to get my hands on them and shine them up.
I promise to provide them a good home.

 

[kenbarnes]

[/quote]Out of curiosity what is so special about this brand of pipes?

Charatans were the pioneers for freehand unorthodox straight grains in 1959. Before this time Mr Charatan would hand turn around 24 pieces of straight grain blocks in orthodox classical shapes per week.

This is a set of Charatan 'Crown Achievements' which was possibly the second set they made in c1972. This may give you an idea of the quality that they were making at that time.

 

[kenbarnes]

One thing that I find confusing is the 'Lane era'. I suppose that most people mean the era after Herman Lane purchased Charatan in the mid 1960s? Herman Lane started importing Charatan pipes into the USA in 1955.

 

[philobeddoe]

Out of all of the great British pipe houses such as Dunhill, Charatan, Barling, Comoys, BBB, GBD etc., Charatan was the one most concerned with extracting the beauty in each piece of briar, more than trying to keep to the exact dimensions off of a shape chart. Charatan pipes, with that honey dipped stain are quite beautiful and in my opinion look much more Danish than classically British.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Ken, I'm in love with your Tuesday, Friday and Saturday...superb shapes.
Thanks for showing the set ::
Regards,
Jay.

 

[sablebrush52]

One thing that I find confusing is the 'Lane era'. I suppose that most people mean the era after Herman Lane purchased Charatan in the mid 1960s? Herman Lane started importing Charatan pipes into the USA in 1955.

Ken,
The term is generally applied to any Charatan that has a Lane stamp on it. So if the Lane stamp was used from 1955 on for pipes imported into the US, then they are considered Lane Era. The stuff I've read seems to suggest that Lane influenced what styles Charatan produced for the US market. Maybe you could speak to that.
BTW, that Crown Achievement set is really fabulous!

 

[kenbarnes]

So if the Lane stamp was used from 1955 on for pipes imported into the US, then they are considered Lane Era.

The 'L' stamp was not used in the 50s. It was first introduced in the 1960s - when, I am not sure. This is another question for Barry Jones. As you indicate Jesse, the 'L' stamped was only for pipes going to the USA, so, in that case, there are lots of 'Lane era' pipes without the 'L' stamp.

 

[puffermark]

Ken that is indeed a stunning set. I find Wednesday particularly intriguing.
Thanks once again for all the inputs, gentlemen. If I may wade in with my limited experience after some more trolling of the internet: I believe the 'Lane era' issue in the case of Charatan is a relatively arbitrary one, except maybe from the point of view of 'collect-ability' since the pre Lane pipes may be a more rare due to production being lower than the post Lane era.
From what I gather production increased significantly after the involvement of Herman Lane with more grades and distinctions being added essentially for marketing purposes. Certainly there is no perceived reduction in quality as is the case with GBD, Comoy etc. and the 'Cadogan era' from what I can tell. The pipes continued to be hand crafted from excellent briar. It was, I believe, exactly what Mr. Lane traded on with the introduction of the 'MADE BY HAND' stamp.
I stand to be corrected, or suitably chastised if necessary.
Allow me to share this short video which I ran across. I had seen it before, possibly even here, I don't recall, but share it nonetheless for those who may not yet have seen it.
Enjoy and thanks again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66Cmw3uCqE