Rattray’s HOTW, Marlin Flake and Old Gowrie

[sablebrush52]

Well yes but it's my understanding that logs just like these (but longer) are what the Escudo-size coins are cut from. The metal cylinders used to form them are the same.

That’s correct, the coins are slices from the log.
The shape may be the same, but the ingredients are not. One of the things I loved about the A & C Petersen branded Escudo was how it developed as it aged. In particular, the white pepper of the Perique mellowed into a ripe fruitiness. This is no longer the case. The blend doesn’t develop much at all. There’s not much point to aging the STG version.

 

[hyperstar]

For me. Marlin flake is the sweetest among them. It has a strong honey taste.

 

[huntertrw]

Regarding my post above, I just recalled that author Richard Carleton Hacker had this to say about Marlin Flake in his book titled Pipesmoking - A 21st Century Guide: "Similar to Old Gowrie but darker and slightly stronger in flavor and aroma (which you won't smell but those around you will)..."

 

[karam]

K&K makes Director's Cut, which contains small coins. Peter Heinrich's Curly Block was a log, and that's still the format after STG took over production of it. A&C Petersen brought over the original Escudo equipment when they took over production from Gallaher, and it went to Orlik when they took over before going to STG, who subbed out pretty much everything in it, a couple of times now, and the current product isn't Escudo. It's something in a tin with the name Escudo on it.

Is Orlik part of STG? Excuse the ignorance, I thought they are separate. I thought Orlik and STG are the only manufacturers who can make large coins, while MacBaren, Gawith and K&K offer cut logs as curlies (there’s a MacBaren video kicking around showing the machine they use, it makes about 50cm long logs), with Gawith being the only place which can make real rope tobacco.
I thought Dan Tobacco can make logs, but now checked and Roper’s Roundels are made by Orlik in fact.

 

[TheWhale13]

Is Orlik part of STG? Excuse the ignorance, I thought they are separate. I thought Orlik and STG are the only manufacturers who can make large coins, while MacBaren, Gawith and K&K offer cut logs as curlies (there’s a MacBaren video kicking around showing the machine they use, it makes about 50cm long logs), with Gawith being the only place which can make real rope tobacco.
I thought Dan Tobacco can make logs, but now checked and Roper’s Roundels are made by Orlik in fact.

I think that the Orlik factory was bought by STG.

 

[sablebrush52]

Is Orlik part of STG? Excuse the ignorance, I thought they are separate. I thought Orlik and STG are the only manufacturers who can make large coins, while MacBaren, Gawith and K&K offer cut logs as curlies (there’s a MacBaren video kicking around showing the machine they use, it makes about 50cm long logs), with Gawith being the only place which can make real rope tobacco.
I thought Dan Tobacco can make logs, but now checked and Roper’s Roundels are made by Orlik in fact.

Once upon a time, Orlik and STG were separate companies. STG bought Orlik. When it comes to coins, I have no idea who has what level of equipment.

 

[clynch]

I can see where it would be a real pain. Something you love changes and you didn't cellar it. How about the tobacco you don't like,? What if it changes and gets better??? You'll never know. Why retry a tobacco you didn't like when there is so much stuff out there.

 

[Terry Lennox]

It's all so hard to track because these factories can also at times be contract manufacturers for each other. For example "made in Denmark but tinned in Germany." And to make matters more complex K&K not only manufactures many blends but they are also the distributor for some things made by others.

 

[Mr_houston]

I believe that MF is still true to the old recipe, at least the recipe from 2008. Recently, I bought a a 500g bag of MF to age as I smoke up my old stock.

 

[Mury]

MF is Va/Per with Cavendish. The others have no Cavendish, but DFK. Brown Clunee is the "third sister" to OG and DFK. To my tastes, Hal is heavier on the DFK, while Old Gowrie leans more on the perique, but in each case the condiments are used lightly, so lightly in fact that years ago on forums people used to get in arguments about whether or not the blends were straight VAs or not as the blending house never mentioned what was actually in the blends until more recently. I remember some old timers swearing up and down until they were blue in the face that Old Gowrie was a straight VA and anyone who disagreed clearly had the palate of a goat and the brains of a chipmunk. Funny.

How do you know they are not straight VA’s? All the old Rattray pamphlets say they are Virginias. However some pre-date the Marlin Flake.

 

[BingBong]

How do you know they are not straight VA’s? All the old Rattray pamphlets say they are Virginias. However some pre-date the Marlin Flake.

Old Rattray was only telling half the story; the full recipe was closely guarded, is my interpretation of the old literature. I can't honestly believe the trio's (HotW, OG, BC) ingredients now are completely new formulations for established names.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Still think today's Marlin Flake & Hal O the Wynd are right up there with the best of what you can currently get.

100% agree.
HOTW is my absolute favorite tobacco currently in production.

 

[Mury]

Old Rattray was only telling half the story; the full recipe was closely guarded, is my interpretation of the old literature. I can't honestly believe the trio's (HotW, OG, BC) ingredients now are completely new formulations for established names.

My confusion is why there is even an argument on this topic if sources pointed to these blends all being straight Virginias. Folks have argued saying they had condemental perique in them and Charles Rattray decided to not put perique on their labels but did so on Dark Fragrant? So Charles Rattray decided to lie about it and Kopp continued to lie about it until 2017? And German laws were extremely strict. It just doesn’t make any sense.

 

[AirOne]

I can see where it would be a real pain. Something you love changes and you didn't cellar it. How about the tobacco you don't like,? What if it changes and gets better??? You'll never know. Why retry a tobacco you didn't like when there is so much stuff out there.

And anything you cellar changes anyways after a few months/years. As does your palate. So many variables