The recent discussion of a Dublin & London pipe in the completed e-Bay auctions thread reminded me of my long-time question. I own one and have long wondered what years the original line ran, not the short-lived resurrection of it a few years back. Anyone know? thanks.
Question About Peterson Dublin & London Line
- Thread starter irishearl
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OK, here's what I've got. First the pipe,
The information that helped to date it,
As it says DUBLIN & LONDON (rather than LONDON & DUBLIN) it was made in Ireland but still within the time frame of when Petersons were still made in London i.e pre 1960, therefore a forked tail P is tying it to before the early 1930's and, with no other stamping of Country of Manufacture, probably pre 1915/16 (but post 1910 as no Patent stamping).
A Peterson Dating Guide; A Rule of Thumb - http://thepetersonpipeproject.blogspot.com/2007/07/dating-peterons-pipes.html
Additionally, on the forked P in Peterson's, from pipedia
So for a guide we must take into consideration the style of lettering Peterson used on their pipes. From the start of the Patent Era until somewhere in the early 1930s, Peterson used the "Old Style" lettering that used a forked tail "P" in Peterson (See enclosure 1). From then until now, Peterson used the more familiar script "P" (See Enclosure 2) intermixed with a plain block letter "P." Later in the 1970s, Peterson began production of "commemorative" pipes, often referred to as "replica" or "retro" pipes and these will also have the old style lettering but according to the pipes that we own and have seen, most of these will have a small difference in the forked tail "P" (See Enclosure 3). Again, there appears to be a cross-over with the old style forked tail and the later forked tail P's. However, these commemorative pipes generally have a silver band with hallmarks so one can date these pipes by the hallmark.
So, the conclusion on dating this pipe, not having any COM marking, was 1910-1915/16.
The information that helped to date it,
As it says DUBLIN & LONDON (rather than LONDON & DUBLIN) it was made in Ireland but still within the time frame of when Petersons were still made in London i.e pre 1960, therefore a forked tail P is tying it to before the early 1930's and, with no other stamping of Country of Manufacture, probably pre 1915/16 (but post 1910 as no Patent stamping).
A Peterson Dating Guide; A Rule of Thumb - http://thepetersonpipeproject.blogspot.com/2007/07/dating-peterons-pipes.html
Additionally, on the forked P in Peterson's, from pipedia
So for a guide we must take into consideration the style of lettering Peterson used on their pipes. From the start of the Patent Era until somewhere in the early 1930s, Peterson used the "Old Style" lettering that used a forked tail "P" in Peterson (See enclosure 1). From then until now, Peterson used the more familiar script "P" (See Enclosure 2) intermixed with a plain block letter "P." Later in the 1970s, Peterson began production of "commemorative" pipes, often referred to as "replica" or "retro" pipes and these will also have the old style lettering but according to the pipes that we own and have seen, most of these will have a small difference in the forked tail "P" (See Enclosure 3). Again, there appears to be a cross-over with the old style forked tail and the later forked tail P's. However, these commemorative pipes generally have a silver band with hallmarks so one can date these pipes by the hallmark.
So, the conclusion on dating this pipe, not having any COM marking, was 1910-1915/16.
Ok, having just looked at the
(Don't know what's up with the link, but it works...)
It's marking reflect exactly what is said in the link above,
"Later in the 1970s, Peterson began production of "commemorative" pipes, often referred to as "replica" or "retro" pipes and these will also have the old style lettering but according to the pipes that we own and have seen, most of these will have a small difference in the original forked tail "P"."
Hard To Find Peterson Author Smoking Pipe
Hard To Find Peterson Author Smoking Pipe | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/184951597515?mkpid=0&emsid=e11002.m43.l2649&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=477fbf5426234c18b042177f463ef746&bu=43192253561&exe=98638&ext=232590&logid=nqt%3DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAgIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAIA**%26nqc%3DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAgIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAIA**%26mdbreftime%3D1627261850239%26es%3D0%26ec%3D1&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20210725181829&segname=11002&sojTags=ch%3Dch%2Cbu%3Dbu%2Cnqt%3Dnqt%2Cnqc%3Dnqc%2Cmdbreftime%3Dmdbreftime%2Ces%3Des%2Cec%3Dec%2Cexe%3Dexe%2Cext%3Dext%2Cexe%3Dexe%2Cext%3Dext%2Cosub%3Dosub%2Ccrd%3Dcrd%2Csegname%3Dsegname%2Cchnl%3Dmkcid&nma=true&si=wh5WHSiWp14YN3irtfTipyARpTA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557(Don't know what's up with the link, but it works...)
It's marking reflect exactly what is said in the link above,
"Later in the 1970s, Peterson began production of "commemorative" pipes, often referred to as "replica" or "retro" pipes and these will also have the old style lettering but according to the pipes that we own and have seen, most of these will have a small difference in the original forked tail "P"."
Thanks. The forked P on mine is a bit curlicued So, it sounds like you're saying at least as old as the 1930's But it has no COM-so even earlier then? Or, the curlicue might mean the 70's?
The forked P with the "curliecue" or the "Old Style" is the older marking, the "closed P" was the later marking.
"From the start of the Patent Era until somewhere in the early 1930s, Peterson used the "Old Style" lettering that used a forked tail "P" in Peterson."
further down from the linked post.
A Peterson Dating Guide; A Rule of Thumb
...the old style lettering but according to the pipes that we own and have seen, most of these will have a small difference in the original forked tail "P"."
"Peterson’s Dublin & London line, stamped “London & Dublin” when made in London, seems to have debuted around 1940. I base this on the fact that the English factory on White Lion Street opened in 1937 and K&P’s November, 1938 Punch ad makes no mention of it."
So, Dublin & London, and London & Dublin are two different things. we see from pipedia,
"1895 Kapp and Peterson moved to bigger premises at 111 Grafton Street Dublin and also opened a new depot in Broad Street London."
So from the link I posted,
"The Patent Era was between the years of K&P's formation until the expiration of the patent; 1875 through approximately 1910. Though for our purposes we will list this era as 1875 through 1922. Peterson pipes made during the majority of this period had no "Country of Manufacture" (COM) stamped on them. However, later in this period, say around 1915/16, Peterson began stamping their pipes "Made in Ireland" in a block format."
So It's interpeting multiple data points...
So, Dublin & London, and London & Dublin are two different things. we see from pipedia,
"1895 Kapp and Peterson moved to bigger premises at 111 Grafton Street Dublin and also opened a new depot in Broad Street London."
So from the link I posted,
"The Patent Era was between the years of K&P's formation until the expiration of the patent; 1875 through approximately 1910. Though for our purposes we will list this era as 1875 through 1922. Peterson pipes made during the majority of this period had no "Country of Manufacture" (COM) stamped on them. However, later in this period, say around 1915/16, Peterson began stamping their pipes "Made in Ireland" in a block format."
So It's interpeting multiple data points...
I have one, a Dublin & London with a MADE IN IRELAND block COM
This came from "Mr Can" ebay auction. He had it dated as 1937 to 1948, which we now know is likely incorrect. Curiously, no P-lip, which I abide on this one, because it smokes so well.
And, no shape number either, very odd.
This came from "Mr Can" ebay auction. He had it dated as 1937 to 1948, which we now know is likely incorrect. Curiously, no P-lip, which I abide on this one, because it smokes so well.
And, no shape number either, very odd.
OK, just googled some more and found an entry at the Black Swan Shoppe which claimed the line started in 1937 and continued through 1997. So, heck, mine could have been made anytime in a wide span of years.Though, due to the forked P, am thinking 1970's or earlier.
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