Question about GBD pipes. Calling on experts.

[ben88]

I got this couple of pipes and I know very little about them.

They seem Pre-Cadogan era, but I wonder if there is more to them.
First one is a Original 789S, I guess "S" stands for "straight"?

According to Pipedia, Original was made in France. Mine stamped "London England".

Second one is Pierrot, also stamped "London England".

Pipedia does not lists this model at all.

 

[danielplainview]

The S could mean saddle. Frenchies were made up until 1952 according to GLP.
Never heard of the Pierrot model but, cool pipe.

 

[osiris01]

I believe the 's' does indicate a saddle bit. The 789s looks like an early one. You've probably seen this already, but this is a 1961 catalogue with a 789 3rd from bottom, so it was definitely around then. If I remember correctly, the stamp changed to a circular format after the merger.
No idea on the Pierrot. Is the stem stamp metallic? It looks like it might be etched, but my eyesight isn't good. If it is not metallic, it would be post-Cadogan. That said, the stamp is 'London England' but I have no idea if the stamping conventions reverted in the more modern pipes. So, nice looking pipes, but I probably haven't told you anything you don't already know.

 

[sablebrush52]

BTW, the "Made In England", "Made In London", "London Made" stamps on a pipe aren't a guarantee that the pipe was made in England or London. Pipes made in France were of stamped with "Made In England" or Made In London" or etc. It wasn't illegal to do that.

 

[osiris01]

That's interesting; I didn't know that. There seemed to be a perceived prestige about the 'London Made' pipes which makes me wonder why this didn't happen more often (perhaps it did). I'm fairly sure that one of the pre-Cadogan brands, possibly GBD, machined some of their pipes in the St Claude factory and then shipped them to England for hand finishing. I may have just made that up - and it does sound a little decadent since I'm sure the French factory was just as capable and well equipped, but I had assumed it was done more for marketing than logistics, but that explanation seems less water-tight if they could have just used a 'London' stamp on them anyway. Might start digging around that and see what I can find.

 

[virginialover]

Good luck with your endeavors.

 

[armonts]

" Brand created 1850 in Paris by Ganneval, Bondier and Donninger.

First Marechal & Ruchon Co. then C. J. Verguet Brothers (closed in 1970) owned GBD from 1903 to 1970 and made these pipes at his factory in St Claude.

In the 1970s the Cadogan Company (Oppenheimer group) took control of GBD. Before that date the pipes were stamped "London England" on a line, even if they were sometimes made in France."
It's complicated, brands have intertwined, like Comoy for example, sometimes bought by a group that has several but never appears ...
In addition to a period it was "dandy" in France to have a pipe

Marked "London" or made in England, maybe the opposite in England .... The confusion was maintained.
(In my opinion, many had to be made in St.Claude / France, from where the briar blanks came.)

 

[sablebrush52]

In the 1970s the Cadogan Company (Oppenheimer group) took control of GBD. Before that date the pipes were stamped "London England" on a line, even if they were sometimes made in France."

Cardogan Investments and the Oppenheimer Group are different companies who formed an alliance to allow them to benefit from each others production assets for making pipes and other accessories.
In the early 20th century most of the bowls were turned in St Claude and then sent to England for finishing. France had the more experienced carvers. I suspect there was some tax advantage to providing components versus finished goods. In any event, the pipe didn't have to be made in England to be stamped as such, and the perceived value of having a "Made In England" etc stamp overrode any attempts to amend the Merchandise Marks Act in a way that would have required a pipe to be totally fabricated in England in order to be stamped as such.

 

[osiris01]

Excellent information, folks. I do love the early GBDs/Orliks/Comoys etc. but trying to unravel their histories is, at times, somewhat impenetrable.

 

[doctorbob]

G.B.D. was marketing french made pipes well into the 1970's. My understanding is the Paris factory closed in the early 1950's, but production continued on for several more decades in St. Claude
doc

 

[gloucesterman]

Your second pipe is a 357 large Prince. This is the standard designation. GBD often took a standard shape and enhanced the surface to produce a special product. I suspect that was the case here. As has been suggested most stummels used by GBD (for all brands) were made in St. Claude The labeling was more an indication of their intended market than their place of manufacture. Although not always the case "London Made" label were intended for the British, U.S. and Australian markets, while France Labels were to be sold on the Continent.

 

[glpease]

The S could mean saddle. Frenchies were made up until 1952 according to GLP.

Not quite so. French GBDs were made in Paris, as well as St. Claude, until 1952, at which time the Paris factory closed.
That Pierrot is as cool as cucumbers in the snow. As for the other, it's an Original, a London marked pipe, not the Paris-made Originale, so there isn't an inconsistency there.
As to "Cadogan era," GBD have been under the umbrella of Cadogan Investments Ltd. since the 1920s, as were BBB, Loewe, and a large share of Comoy. A more accurate term might be "pre-consolidation," or "pre-merger." Just being pedantic, now...