Put Your Theoretical Science Hats on Please

[hoosierpipeguy]

When you were a kid and burnt your hand when you touched the red hot burner, did you need your Dad to explain the science of electricity creating heat when following through a resistive element to avoid touching a hot burner again? Red Virginia's are known to burn certain people. Whether it is chemical or allergy, I don't know. I do know its not the end of the world and have a simple solution. Avoid Red Virginia blends period.

 

[highwaycobbery]

The first rule of pipe club is don’t talk about pipe club. But if you get burned by red Virginia acid gargle vinegar. I learn all my science from watching awesome movies.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I think I'd prefer lemon juice!

 

[highwaycobbery]

His name was cosmic folklore, his name was cosmic folklore.....

 

[highwaycobbery]

 

[sandollars]

What's the pH of your tongue/mouth?

I have a pool guy so no litmus paper

 

[sandollars]

When you were a kid and burnt your hand when you touched the red hot burner, did you need your Dad to explain the science of electricity creating heat when following through a resistive element to avoid touching a hot burner again? Red Virginia's are known to burn certain people. Whether it is chemical or allergy, I don't know. I do know its not the end of the world and have a simple solution. Avoid Red Virginia blends period.

Thanks for the pragmatic advice.

 

[rajangan]

I don’t know, man. Formic acid does get produced when sugar is caramelized, but as far as I know, it’s a very tiny amount in terms of molarity, and even then, it’s a weak acid. Temperature could drive up the Ka I suppose, but even giving it the full benefit of the doubt, 100% ionization, I’d be pretty surprised if it’s enough concentration to cause burns. I think the fact that only some people seem to be sensitive to Virginias backs that up. If it were as simple as an acid burn, I think everyone would feel it. Don’t you think? ?‍

This carmelization reaction you're referring to. Is that the same as burning? Looking at the bottom chart, it stands to reason that when an all-flue cured cigarette burns to a pH of 3.5, that the amount is significant.

When I'm blending, my experience really fits with this. Adding burley, perique, or cigar leaf sometimes only takes small amounts to have a great impact on mouth feel. It's like it's neutralizing rather than diluting.

Also, there's seems to be a direct correlation between mouth burn and sugar content. The same tobacco, grown the same year, in the same garden, but cured three different ways will all have different bite levels. Flue cured the highest, sun cured in the middle, and air cured the lowest.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Thanks for the pragmatic advice.

I was kind of busting your balls as well. LOL

 

[hawky454]

Just a thought for the OP, have you tried using a filter when you smoke reds? I’ve heard some people do have success with curbing chemical burn using them.

 

[Chasing Embers]

*Olkofri dips all of chasingembers's magnum pipes in chlorine

What about now? ?

It would improve the Dunhills.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

This carmelization reaction you're referring to. Is that the same as burning? Looking at the bottom chart, it stands to reason that when an all-flue cured cigarette burns to a pH of 3.5, that the amount is significant.

The pH of Coca-Cola is like 2.5 or so. ?‍ Seems like there’s more to it than [H+].

 

[rajangan]

The pH of Coca-Cola is like 2.5 or so. ?‍ Seems like there’s more to it than [H+].

And you don't think temperature and vaporization are adequate to explain the difference?

I'm comfortable with agreeing the formic acid theory may not be the entire story. I think the theory at least almost fits, for now. Tobacco at either end of the spectrum, both high and low in pH, are harsh in their own way.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

And you don't think temperature and vaporization are adequate to explain the difference?

I don’t know. I guess I’m not tracking here. The smoke itself is not hot by the time it gets to the mouth, if that’s the temperature you’re referring to. If you’re talking about the temperature of the ember, then it appears that’s already been taken into consideration in the graphs you posted.
And FWIW, I did some digging, and it seems the temperature of an ember in a pipe, from what I’ve been able to find, is generally agreed to be around 500 C. If that’s accurate, it would not coincide with those big formic acid peaks in that top graph. I don’t know, be your own judge I suppose, but it doesn’t seem as simple as pH to me. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something? ?‍

 

[Worknman]

Is it just red virginias that burn your mouth? Dont bright virginias have a higher sugar content than red?

 

[rajangan]

I don’t know. I guess I’m not tracking here. The smoke itself is not hot by the time it gets to the mouth, if that’s the temperature you’re referring to. If you’re talking about the temperature of the ember, then it appears that’s already been taken into consideration in the graphs you posted.
And FWIW, I did some digging, and it seems the temperature of an ember in a pipe, from what I’ve been able to find, is generally agreed to be around 500 C. If that’s accurate, it would not coincide with those big formic acid peaks in that top graph. I don’t know, be your own judge I suppose, but it doesn’t seem as simple as pH to me. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something? ?‍

I wouldn't say you are misunderstanding. I think it's fair skepticism.

I do think there's variation in temperature within a bowl and that it has to reach 500° by passing through every lower temperature in between.

I agree that the smoke isn't exceedingly hot, but other theories I've heard about tongue bite include plain old steam, so are we questioning that it's at least 212° altogether?

 

[rajangan]

Is it just red virginias that burn your mouth? Dont bright virginias have a higher sugar content than red?

All Virginias burn my mouth, but I didn't want to complicate things.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Just smoke semois then.

 

[rajangan]

CHEMICAL COMPOSITION OF VARIOUS COMMERCIAL GRADES OF CANADIAN FLUE-CURED TOBACCO

A study was made of the chemical composition of 21 commercial grades of Canadian flue-cured tobacco, selected from a 50-acre crop of Hicks variety in 1955. Arbitrary prices were assigned to the various grades of tobacco. Correlation coefficients between the chemical values and the assigned grade...

cdnsciencepub.com

This study compared the composition of different grades of tobacco. Red VA isn't on the list, but you can see that the higher on the plant, the higher the quality of the orange grades. I think we can assume that red follows the same logic, and it is probably most similar to BT30. But let's just look at the data here by comparing leaf tip good orange (BT30), leaf good lemon (B3L), and cutter good lemon (C3L).




The sugar content of these good grades are almost the same. When you buy something labeled Red VA, you expect a specific grade; and based on brand, quality. I think with pipe tobacco, these red VAs will all be high in sugar. However when you buy any unspecified VA, there is no guarantee that you are getting the highest grades, and are therefore more likely to be getting grades that have less sugar content (and lower cost). Also, these blenders may be specifically using VAs with lower sugar content in order to reduce tongue bite and improve the customer experience. They can do so without changing their label. A red VA can't really do that.

 

[rajangan]

If you look at the Ontario tobacco grading system, you will see that red grades are more numerous, and the colour intensity more strong, the higher you go up on a plant.

e-Laws | Ontario.ca

www.ontario.ca