I agree. Absolutely. As long as there videos on YouTube showing how to use a pipes and such, I believe future pipe smokers would have a sense of direction and knowledge.
"Premium Pipe Tobacco"
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I am one of them! But I can’t deny it gave me a sense of direction, and for a while feeling confident and intrigued in learning. As soon as you are hooked into the hobby, I think those videos have done their Job. If these video’s didn’t exist, I may doubt the enthusiasm for new pipe smokers to just type “how to smoke pipe tobacco” in their YouTube or google search and get a link to the youtube video with visual introductions from enthusiastic hobbyist. It is one of those things that gives the commoners a quick head start to the hobby.
Well here lays another view point I may agree with. I would have to then say that it is better to have them than not.
. Don't be shocked when all 50 state refuse to let pipe tobacco be delivered to their citizens. I know Washington state is one and Maine is another and I know there are more. When all online sales are killed then each state will fuck us with an 85% excise type tax on the wholesale price of tobacco which Florida did over a decade ago.
I predict pipe tobacco will have to be gotten from over seas like Cuban cigars are some day. I had around 6 seizure letters when I was buying Cubans I was lucky my vendors covered the losses( i was one of their best customers at the best sites). and referred thousands of cigar smokers to my many over seas vendors. . Although I had committed a trading with the enemy felony charge with a 50,000 dollar fine, I still did it. All they would do is ask you if you wanted to dispute their actions which of course I ignored and never heard from them. I can see this happening with pipe tobacco. Pipe mfgs are going to have to take risks if they want to sell to the US. However by the time this goes down, the Asian markets might have taken up the slack leaving shit to be sold to the US.
I know many of you are thinking I am full of shit and I am saying the sky is falling, but my track record since 2012 has been pretty good. I warned people about loading up on their favorites(if possible) . I tried to explain tins go out of production with no warning which is a really shitty move by the pipe mfgs. I told people pipe tobacco would never be as cheap as it was back then. I tried to explain that we were entitled to nothing. There is no law that says Penzance and Stonehaven have to be in stock at all times. If I were cellaring to day I would be all over the little guys and would try cutting deals with large quantities. When you ask someone for a 10 pound lot for Best Brown Flake, these vendors start licking their lips. Of all the Stonhaven I purchased only one 250 gram bag from 4 noggins. Never got any from Sp or any other big dealer. I got it all from mom and pops. One thing I recommend is when you call a small guy do not ask for Stonehaven or Penzance right away. As about their Fribourg and Treyer inventory or about their Wessex availability maybe ask about their Peterson inventory. Prepare to pay good bucks on other stuff so you don't look like a cherry picker. Back in my day they didn't get testy about cherry picking SG Flakes. I was lucky between trades and sales from different forums I finished of my Stonehaven stash with 12 bags at 35.00 per bag from a small guy. He even asked me if I wanted 15 tins of Penzance and since I no longer smoked it I gave a good buddy the number and he bought them all.
I predict pipe tobacco will have to be gotten from over seas like Cuban cigars are some day. I had around 6 seizure letters when I was buying Cubans I was lucky my vendors covered the losses( i was one of their best customers at the best sites). and referred thousands of cigar smokers to my many over seas vendors. . Although I had committed a trading with the enemy felony charge with a 50,000 dollar fine, I still did it. All they would do is ask you if you wanted to dispute their actions which of course I ignored and never heard from them. I can see this happening with pipe tobacco. Pipe mfgs are going to have to take risks if they want to sell to the US. However by the time this goes down, the Asian markets might have taken up the slack leaving shit to be sold to the US.
I know many of you are thinking I am full of shit and I am saying the sky is falling, but my track record since 2012 has been pretty good. I warned people about loading up on their favorites(if possible) . I tried to explain tins go out of production with no warning which is a really shitty move by the pipe mfgs. I told people pipe tobacco would never be as cheap as it was back then. I tried to explain that we were entitled to nothing. There is no law that says Penzance and Stonehaven have to be in stock at all times. If I were cellaring to day I would be all over the little guys and would try cutting deals with large quantities. When you ask someone for a 10 pound lot for Best Brown Flake, these vendors start licking their lips. Of all the Stonhaven I purchased only one 250 gram bag from 4 noggins. Never got any from Sp or any other big dealer. I got it all from mom and pops. One thing I recommend is when you call a small guy do not ask for Stonehaven or Penzance right away. As about their Fribourg and Treyer inventory or about their Wessex availability maybe ask about their Peterson inventory. Prepare to pay good bucks on other stuff so you don't look like a cherry picker. Back in my day they didn't get testy about cherry picking SG Flakes. I was lucky between trades and sales from different forums I finished of my Stonehaven stash with 12 bags at 35.00 per bag from a small guy. He even asked me if I wanted 15 tins of Penzance and since I no longer smoked it I gave a good buddy the number and he bought them all.
All of this, is because of a tax increase on tobacco products taken by the United States Congress in early 2009.
The Federal tax on cigarettes was doubled from about fifty cents to a dollar.
If Congress had stopped, right there, the effect would be that in Missouri, where we enjoy the lowest state taxes on cigarettes in the civilized world, of only 17 cents a pack, a carton of cheap cigs in Missouri would have increased from about $15 to $20. I can buy 24/7 brand cigarettes many places today for $20.
And 24/7 cigs are good, tasty, mild commercial cigarettes made in Oklahoma. Except for perceived status they ought to be the number one cigarette in the entire USA.
In 2009 the price of a carton of little cigars in Missouri was about five dollars.
It still isn’t much more, because the makers added enough tobacco to little cigars to put them in a different tax bracket.
Big tobacco demanded and got a tax increase on roll your own cigarette tobacco to about $26 a pound, so that the tax would be the same on home rolled cigs as store bought.
The makers of Gambler changed the cut slightly and labelled it as pipe tobacco, taxed at ten times less.
I have mixed emotions about trying to create a definition of premium pipe tobacco. I know what it is, when I taste it.
RYO type pipe tobacco in Missouri is about $10 a pound and premium is about $16 a pound. The extra cost is likely for the added flavorings, and higher grades of tobacco, every bale of which is graded by the government.
In a nation of three hundred thirty million maybe a million? of us buy one pouch of Prince Albert, or Capstan a year.
The current law taxes an ounce of Prince Albert and an ounce of Capstan, the same.
Let’s quit winner, shall we?
Tell me what we can gain, and I’m listening.
The Federal tax on cigarettes was doubled from about fifty cents to a dollar.
If Congress had stopped, right there, the effect would be that in Missouri, where we enjoy the lowest state taxes on cigarettes in the civilized world, of only 17 cents a pack, a carton of cheap cigs in Missouri would have increased from about $15 to $20. I can buy 24/7 brand cigarettes many places today for $20.
And 24/7 cigs are good, tasty, mild commercial cigarettes made in Oklahoma. Except for perceived status they ought to be the number one cigarette in the entire USA.
In 2009 the price of a carton of little cigars in Missouri was about five dollars.
It still isn’t much more, because the makers added enough tobacco to little cigars to put them in a different tax bracket.
Big tobacco demanded and got a tax increase on roll your own cigarette tobacco to about $26 a pound, so that the tax would be the same on home rolled cigs as store bought.
The makers of Gambler changed the cut slightly and labelled it as pipe tobacco, taxed at ten times less.
I have mixed emotions about trying to create a definition of premium pipe tobacco. I know what it is, when I taste it.
RYO type pipe tobacco in Missouri is about $10 a pound and premium is about $16 a pound. The extra cost is likely for the added flavorings, and higher grades of tobacco, every bale of which is graded by the government.
In a nation of three hundred thirty million maybe a million? of us buy one pouch of Prince Albert, or Capstan a year.
The current law taxes an ounce of Prince Albert and an ounce of Capstan, the same.
Let’s quit winner, shall we?
Tell me what we can gain, and I’m listening.
I understand what you are proposing in terms of the history and the limitations of what we are in here. Tobacco, in general, is in a pit with no ladder. But that doesn't mean it will die. I propose a way to sustain pipe tobacco for the future, not to limit taxes or inhibit the FDA continuous fights against it.
I proposed that labeling "Premium pipe tobacco" will give the FDA a definition in which to exclude pipe tobacco from the other tobacco's sold on the market. similar to "Premium cigars" I believe it is pure terminology to seclude pipe tobacco from other forms of tobacco and treat it with a higher, and more dignified stature than cigarettes and vape. Look at cigars, they are already trying to separate from the tobacco market by creating their own definition and argument, which is working and winning.
"premium pipe tobacco" is a set of defined rules of making pipe tobacco to a standard that differs itself from other forms of tobacco, similar to "Premium cigars" definition of itself. It doesn't mean it is a good blend, or made with good "characteristics" since this is only defined by you, the consumer of the product. Think of an expensive cigar that you may not fancy, but it is still made with standardized rule of thumb, the "premium cigar" way, but the cigar doesn't have a good balance or taste. It's the standardization is what I am proposing.
The only limitations is Pipe tobacco is not as big as cigars. They don't have the same resources or revenue to pull a good fight against the FDA in court, but that doesn't mean we just will have to give up on it. It also doesn't mean we can't be smarter about it and slowly replicate what cigars are doing. As I said, one right step is never a wrong one.
My only way seeing this working out is through treating pipe tobacco as a luxury, conssiousers choice simialrs to cigars. Pipe tobacco's future will never be that of a commoner buying his Dr. Grabows pipe with his Prince Albert, that was the past where pipes where a nicotine fix similar to cigarettes. Let us end this image.
I am trying to see peoples view point on this issue as it seems that there is no plans or clarification.
Here’s my two pennyworth - there was a time when tobacco houses would have manufactured a range of tobacco products. Here in the UK, as a couple of examples, Benson and Hedges used to make cigarettes (B&H Gold and Silver), cigars (machine made Hamlets) and pipe tobacco (B&H’s Mellow Virginia more recently - this used to come as ready rubbed or flake - but also Virginia Flake and others back in the day). It seems that Gallaher’s bought up B&H at some point before they were scooped up by J
Dunhill used to make their cigarettes (I think they had a brand called International or Continental), they came in a maroon/burgundy box, two packs of ten in one box, very fancy, as well as their pipe tobaccos and pipes.
As the large companies suck up the smaller tobacco manufacturers for millions of £’s, the niche tobaccos are no longer viable for the department of bean counters so they go the way of the dodo. Less choice for us and the loss of some dear old friends.
Calling pipe tobacco a ‘premium’ thing might work for some while in the US, where such terms seem to be of some importance to the department of bean counters in D.C but, in general, the people in charge want to see and end to use dinosaur tobacco fiends, the only problem they have is how to replace the tax revenue that they will lose? A packet of cigarettes is massively taxed here in the UK, somewhere around 85-90% is tax on a box of 20, similar for cigars and pipe tobacco.
My prediction is: when they work out what else they can tax to such a high level, for the ‘good of our health’ then they will go all out on the tobacco fiends and words like ‘premium’ or ‘hand crafted’ won’t mean diddly sh*t. They are already gearing up to tax sugary drinks, fast food and chocolate manufacturers over here
Stock up is my thinking.
Dunhill used to make their cigarettes (I think they had a brand called International or Continental), they came in a maroon/burgundy box, two packs of ten in one box, very fancy, as well as their pipe tobaccos and pipes.
As the large companies suck up the smaller tobacco manufacturers for millions of £’s, the niche tobaccos are no longer viable for the department of bean counters so they go the way of the dodo. Less choice for us and the loss of some dear old friends.
Calling pipe tobacco a ‘premium’ thing might work for some while in the US, where such terms seem to be of some importance to the department of bean counters in D.C but, in general, the people in charge want to see and end to use dinosaur tobacco fiends, the only problem they have is how to replace the tax revenue that they will lose? A packet of cigarettes is massively taxed here in the UK, somewhere around 85-90% is tax on a box of 20, similar for cigars and pipe tobacco.
My prediction is: when they work out what else they can tax to such a high level, for the ‘good of our health’ then they will go all out on the tobacco fiends and words like ‘premium’ or ‘hand crafted’ won’t mean diddly sh*t. They are already gearing up to tax sugary drinks, fast food and chocolate manufacturers over here
Stock up is my thinking.
It's doable. But like so many have said, who will fight the battle? It's not lucrative enough right now to be represented by enough pockets willing to shell out. Ciigars support entire towns ALL over the world. Pipe tobaccos like Perique, fire-cured, latakia/orientals are small farm operations supporting maybe a few thousand families around the world, if that.
And a good thought it is. I'm young, so I have no experience in the changing times and seeing items go off shelf as such. "Large companies suck up the smaller" and its aftermath is likely all I've seen, or at least to recent memory. Online costs, where I do most of my shopping, have me at a present 10% tax, though it's only a matter of time before an increase will be seen.
I have friends in Scotland that talk about their taxes at times. Some leave cigars to the special occasion for the cost is seemingly costly. Another trying to get off cigarettes by vaping because of the cost of a pack.
Currently I have enough to last me another 6 months easily, but realistically I should be cellering now, when waters are calm rather than in the aftermath. A few years from now I doubt there will be drastic change for us here in the states, but 10, 20? That is where my optimism drops off. In a hobby of where your tools will last longer than yourself, and where most take to the hobby for a life time, I can only do myself the favor of buying relatively cheaply now. It can only get worse from now, can't it?
Correct! It will never be cheaper nor more accessible than NOW. Unless somehow humanity collectively realizes that government will always make a thing worse, we are doomed. The worst part, as you mentioned, is that our hobby won't even be a target... just another casualty of bureaucratic incompetence as tyrannical busybodies assume to understand the overwhelmingly complex machinations of an (otherwise) free market composed of the democratically voiced trade winds of equally-complex individuals. In other words... the government can shove it.
Premium cigar companies are vertically integrated. They grown their own leaf on their own land, cure and ferment it in their own warehouses, and roll the final product with their own employees.
Pipe tobacco blenders buy graded lots of leaf from what is left over after cigarette, machine cigar, and chew wholesalers have had their pick.
There is no direct economic connection between any given tobacco farmer and a pipe tobacco blender. No farmer grows just for our needs, no broker considers calling a pipe blender first if something extra good crosses their path.
We cannot, on our own, support all the farmers and producers of blend components. We just don't have the buying power.
If American Spirit didn't want perique, it would be gone. If Copenhagen didn't want dark fired, poof. No one's going to maintain those labor/resource intensive curing methods based on what our tiny slice of the tobacco industry can guarantee.
Pipe tobacco blenders buy graded lots of leaf from what is left over after cigarette, machine cigar, and chew wholesalers have had their pick.
There is no direct economic connection between any given tobacco farmer and a pipe tobacco blender. No farmer grows just for our needs, no broker considers calling a pipe blender first if something extra good crosses their path.
We cannot, on our own, support all the farmers and producers of blend components. We just don't have the buying power.
If American Spirit didn't want perique, it would be gone. If Copenhagen didn't want dark fired, poof. No one's going to maintain those labor/resource intensive curing methods based on what our tiny slice of the tobacco industry can guarantee.
I realize that I didn't really relate that statement to your original question.
While I adore the efforts of "premium" pipe tobacco blenders and am happy to incentivize them by paying more than commodity prices, their 'value add' is not protectable in a legislative sense if the rest (vast majority) of the tobacco industry were to wane (be regulated out of existence).
While I adore the efforts of "premium" pipe tobacco blenders and am happy to incentivize them by paying more than commodity prices, their 'value add' is not protectable in a legislative sense if the rest (vast majority) of the tobacco industry were to wane (be regulated out of existence).