Pre- and Post- Transition, Suspicious?

[mso489]

A number of pipe brands have in their history the transition from one location to another, or from one featured carver or carvers to others, or from one particular era of manufacture to another. Open your mind and bit and consider, why do sentiments and especially estate prices invariably favor what came before? I know there are some examples where these "transitions" of one kind or another actually improved the product, but it is far easier to identify the many instances where, rightly or wrongly, the earlier product is deemed far more desirable, and more expensive. Are we stuck in some kind of mindset that longs for the past, no matter what the actual pipes might tell us? Isn't the perpetual golden age -- which always means the past, and often quite a while ago -- a little suspicious? Some of the pipes I've bought new in the past, say, six years are pretty good. I won't overplay how good they are, but I'm not sure pipes thirty or sixty years old are inevitably superior. What do you think?

 

[pipesmokingtom]

Are we stuck in some kind of mindset that longs for the past, no matter what the actual pipes might tell us?

Yes - same with tobaccos.
I started a not-so-well-received thread some time ago to this point. I suggested that it would seem to be an impossibility that all of the blends that came before were demonstrably better than their re-releases, which had been almost universally panned. Almost everyone else suggested I was wrong.
EDIT: I THINK this was before the RO re-releases of the SToP blends, which have been much better received.

 

[aldecaker]

I'm not sure why pinin' for the past is such a big thing, but it is. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes, and still don't know why.

 

[pagan]

Older is (in most cases) better, I would rather have an estate pipe made by the hands of a skilled craftsman then a newer mass market pipe, I recon that's the allure of artisan pipes. Not just pipes but most things that were made long ago by people who took pride in what they do and made a quality product, these days it's all cheap, mass produced disposable crap, and it's sad
as the saying goes, They don't make em like that any more

 

[samcoffeeman]

It is a bit of a stigma. Mostly brought about by the Cadogan buyout of many British brands such as Comoy, GBD et al. Also, Barlings were renowned to be excellent pipes made from very old Briar before the family sold out. I love older Comoy pipes, the stems are fantastic and I have so many older Comoy pipes that are just solid smokers.

 

[Cliff_K]

I'm not knowledgeable about pipes as all mine I bought new, but I like to think I get better with age.

 

[deathmetal]

Probably varies on a case-by-case basis.

 

[dottiewarden]

Tinsky is King!

 

[agnosticpipe]

This is an interesting thread mso. I don't think about this much mainly because I buy so few new pipes. I realize that many people will only buy new, and I can understand their reasons. (mostly) I don't think that necessarily that all older stuff is made better. In many cases yes, but in some cases like cars, I think that newer cars are better in the sense that they get better mileage, have better features, and are certainly safer. I buy estate pipes because the seem to offer better value, have a history that I find intriguing, and well, I like to restore pipes. I've had a brand new Rossi Otranto small straight apple smoke just as good as a 70 year old WDC straight apple. On the other hand, there is probably some evidence that supports that some older versions of the same new pipe might be better given the age of the briar or the manufacturing differences.

I'm sure sablebrush would testify that the older Barlings are better than the newer ones. I've never had the opportunity to test that out. I guess that the value of older pipes, or pipes of the same name made now in different countries all depend on how you view the issue, or the experiences you've had. Me, I love me some history. :D

 

[ashdigger]

For many Brit-Wood pipes it's not about pining for days of old.....it's about better manufacturing and more attention to detail.
Many post Cadogan pipes aren't worth better money because as a rule they aren't BETTER manufacturing standards.
Kaywoodie went through the same QC problems.
But if I pine, so what, luckily it's more about manufacturer attention to details.
I also own modern pipes, Ryan Alden to name one. Why, attention to details.

 

[aldecaker]

Well put, Tim. I think I'm just nostalgic.

 

[tuold]

In the case of American factory pipes it's very clear that we can see a lowering of quality in pipes from the 60s onward. As there were fewer pipe smokers to sell pipes to the makers cut corners to stay in business. Those who didn't went out of business or were bought by the survivors. To some extent I think that's what started the death spiral.
My old Dr Grabows, Medicos and Yello Boles are the centerpieces of my humble collection.I enjoy them emensly. They can't be replaced by current production.
On the other hand, I do enjoy my newer Petersons and Savanellis. I don't think of them as being in the same category though. If the costs of those are adjusted for inflation the older pipes still cost half as much as those.

 

[andrew]

There was a time when a high end Kaywoodie cost more than a Dunhill pipe

 

[ashdigger]

Andy, exactly, that's why I brought them up.

 

[andrew]

You should also simply look into Briarwood and what it is and how long it takes to grow, and you should get your answer

 

[sablebrush52]

It is a case by case basis. Wonderful pipes are made today, as well as pipe turds. Wonderful pipes were made decades ago, and so were pipe turds.

With some companies, like Barling, the product gradually went down hill under new ownership. Barling still made some great pipes while they still ran their factories, but the quality became uneven. After they turned to outsourcing, first in England and later in Denmark, the resulting pipes bore no relationship to the original product.
Sometimes the product improves under new ownership. A lot of smokers prefer the Peterson version of Escudo to either Cope's or Gallaher.

 

[hakchuma]

I believe the idea of an older pipe to be a better pipe is pure nonsense.

 

[sablebrush52]

I believe the idea of an older pipe to be a better pipe is pure nonsense.

Depends on the pipe.

 

[alexnorth]

A very interesting question mso. In my view there are two major reasons. Firstly, we tend to believe that handmade by a craftsman is superior to machine made, whatever the product may be. I find this to be mostly true and that our consumistic era has sacrificed quality for the sake of ''effectiveness'' and profiteering in a number of manufacturing venues. Factory made isn't necessarily bad or worse than hand made but there are numerous examples where this is the case. Expert craftsmen with a special trade have been replaced by industry.
Secondly there probably is a measure of nostalgia there as well. We tend to look back and dream about ''the good old days'' of whatever it may be...

 

[disinformatique]

I blame the Cadogan Crime Syndicate for burning the reputation of the brands they bought and then transformed them into cheap imitations of their former self.
An ebay wholesaler got me a few Comoy's being sold at $30 per pipe and yes they are being sold at 3-4 times the price currently.