Potentially Controversial Opinion On Legislation...

Log in

SmokingPipes.com Updates

Watch for Updates Twice a Week

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Status
Not open for further replies.

cmdrmcbragg

Lifer
Jul 29, 2013
1,739
3
+1 peck
The Sin tax is of old western political philosophy. A strategy to try and limit vice (and gain revenue) for the benefit of "the greater good."

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
462
Also interesting is a study that was done up here years ago that showed that smokers (and it focused on cigarette smokers) actually do not impose a net cost on non-smokers, and in fact provide a net benefit to them. There are costs to smoking related to the cost of government health care to treat smoking-related illnesses, but the study found that these costs were more than offset by reduced health care and pension costs from smokers dying earlier than non-smokers coupled with the huge taxes paid by smokers.

 

conlejm

Lifer
Mar 22, 2014
1,433
8
A similar study to the one you refer to:
Tobacco: Philip Morris Report Claims Benefits Of Smokers' Deaths
United Nations Foundation, July 18, 2001
A controversial study commissioned by Philip Morris to examine the financial costs of smoking includes findings that premature smokers' deaths have economic benefits, after researchers concluded that the Czech government saved $30 million in 1999 by not having to support, house and care for smokers who perished prematurely from tobacco-related illnesses. Because of the tobacco industry, the report found that the Czech Republic was better off in 1999.

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
12,911
21,579
SE PA USA
Intellectual Honesty can be a tough teacher. I encountered and dealt with my own hypocrisies when I took up gun collecting back in the early 90's. That wasn't easy. I had to question some of the basic assumptions that I had made about myself, about other people, and about society. What I eventually found is that what it comes down to is this: Either you support individual liberty, or you do not. And if you do not, then the slope is deep and very, very slippery. What happens to you when you step off the edge is your own doing, and it goes nowhere but (as Johnny Cash said) down, down down. Even though you may believe that you are handing over your freedoms to the Greater Good, be aware that there is no such animal, just wolves in sheep's clothing, masquerading as humanity. The Greater Good resides in all of us as individuals. It is not a commodity that we hand over to the government for safe keeping, for once we cede control of our moral compass, it is gone for good.
"Freedom" is not synonymous with "easy". Freedom is difficult and risky. And it's not for everyone.

 

northernneil

Lifer
Jun 1, 2013
1,390
4
I cannot remember the speakers name, but I listened to a great speech on the local University station. Basically his point is no matter the local problems; loss of local freedom, war, poverty, the real problem is actually over consumption and over population creating the loss of species. If these issues are left unaddressed, we will use up our natural resources. The over fertilization of soil is ruining our water supply and farm land. Pesticides are destroying pollination. His point was basically, losing your personal freedoms are nothing in the large scale of our world surviving for future generations to enjoy.

I thought it was a very interesting perspective. And as Peck mentioned, when people are dead they are technically less of a drain on society. If this guy is right, smoking might actually help our planet and species survive in the long term.

 

conlejm

Lifer
Mar 22, 2014
1,433
8
Smoking cessation is likely contributing to people living longer. Our government seemingly has a vendetta against tobacco users, as is evidenced by increased taxation on tobacco products as well as punitive surcharges on healthcare premiums through the Healthcare.gov public exchanges:
Tobacco Use: Insurers can charge tobacco users up to 50% more than those who don’t use tobacco.
Here in the US, this is a very big financial penalty. This policy is not being embraced by every state, but it is by most states. This could backfire and price smokers out of the insurance risk pool, or it may prompt them to quit using tobacco products. Which would potentially increase their life expectancy, thereby exacerbating the problems caused by overpopulation that you refer to. (And it helps non-smokers to avoid subsidizing smokers' healthcare costs :wink: )

 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
10,040
16,089
My two cents:
1. Cancer and heart disease are epidemic amongst non-smokers.
2. All of the ills attributed to over-population are, in reality, the result of over-crowding and mismanagement. It is the density of the populations in big cities that is the real problem...which is the result of many decades of socio-economic engineering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVOU5bfHrM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWAXWhtSCQ

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,085
490
Winnipeg, Canada
.anyone urging you to surrender your personal freedoms, for the "greater good" has no intention of giving up his personal freedoms..It really is about controlling others.
+1
The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party
1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.
2. We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.
4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.
5. Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.
6. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.
We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.
7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.
8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.
9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.
10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
Therefore we demand:
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.
19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.
22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.
23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:
(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.
(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.
(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.
Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.
24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.
The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:
COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD
25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.
The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.
The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

 

mortonbriar

Lifer
Oct 25, 2013
2,808
6,124
New Zealand
thank you to everyone for your contributions, i needed extra angles to mull over. I cant say i was expecting to read adolfs 25 point plan on this thread but hey, life is full of surprises.

 

huntertrw

Lifer
Jul 23, 2014
5,870
7,579
The Lower Forty of Hill Country
Just think: If we were to all be smoke-free and "healthy," then we could work even longer over the course of our lives and, thus, in turn, pay even MORE taxes. My question then is whose good is actually being looked out for? The 11 most potentially chilling words in our language are, "I'm from the Government, and I am here to help you."

 
Status
Not open for further replies.