Plume or Mold?...

[stokesdale]

As Frank Zappa used to say, looks like fumunda cheese...i.e., cheese fumunda my nuts...and don't you eat that yellow snow either! No, seriously though, definitely looks like syphilis to me...I wouldn't smoke it if I were you.

 

[jcsoldit]

When in doubt, smoke it!

 

[pantsBoots]

Mold usually has a smell. But, sometimes with a really strong tobacco, it gets masked by the tobacco.
However, there is a lot of recent research in cigars that says that what we call plume is actually mold also. What it is exactly is just really not known. I have plume on most of my tobaccos in the cellar now, and really, I can't tell if the tobacco is just naturally more mellow because of the age or if a visible plume make any difference. I am sure, however, that it doesn't make it any sweeter. So, I personally have ruled out that it is some sort of sugar. YMMV

If you're referring to the research that occurred on plume over at FriendsOfHabanos, that study has been valuable indeed. They have as of yet to identify a sample that wasn't a type of mold. That said, I have a very amateur background growing culinary fungi and as such have seen a plethora of competitor fungi and bacteria take over a substrate. I have definitely seen - very rarely - some sort of small crystalline dusting form on cigars that did not look like any fungus I've seen.

All that to say, unlike cigars, pipe tobacco is frequently cased, sometimes with sugar solutions, so for the solid sugar to precipitate is not impossible. With lab analysis, however, it's impossible to know what is what.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If you're referring to the research that occurred on plume over at FriendsOfHabanos, that study has been valuable indeed. They have as of yet to identify a sample that wasn't a type of mold.

Yes...

When I taste them, they never taste sweet, more of a waxiness. I'm not even sure where the term "sugar crystals" comes from, but they are not like any sugar I've ever experienced.
I believe at one point Greg Pease said they were more like mineral formations... but I don't have his exact quote handy, nor where he gets that info.
But, of course, pipe smokers are generally more frugal than cigar guys, so we will probably never know. Unless of course one of ya's wants to send a flake off to analysis. Until then, we just have no idea. But, they are not sweet, nor does their formation make the tobacco taste any sweeter.
At best, they are an indicator that the tobacco has aged... whether formed by an benign mold, crystalline growth, or magic. We just don't know.

But, no one has died from it... that we know of.

 

[ashdigger]

Plume

 

[karam]

You know we're being made of in the cigar forums for drooling over "plume" or "crystallization", which they simply call "deposited additives" right?

Yep, I've nerded out too and tasted them, they tasted soapy/salty to me, definitely not sweet.
I don't know if they are any sort of sign of great ageing either, I've had these show up on my St Bernard Flake which I've had for a mere 6 months, and on ODF which didn't survive my hands more than 2 months.

 

[James84]

Gre

I’ve seen that too, but I think cigars are in a different category in most cases, though. The reason I say that is because a lot of pipe tobacco is cased with sugar water, and sometimes that excess sugar will crystallize out, and some people call it plume/bloom, even though it’s not the same thing as is seen on cigars, which aren’t cased. And of course that sugar will be crystalline in appearance. Personally I don’t buy the idea that any crystallized sugar makes a difference in and of itself. I mean, you’re smoking the sugar whether it’s still in the tobacco or has crystallized on the surface, so what’s the difference? I do think it is a sign of age though, and some blends do mellow, meld, and change a bit with age.
Just my hunch. I could be wrong ?‍

Great feed back. Thank you

 

[James84]

Looks like I'd roll it up, stuff it in my pipe and smoke it to me. If you're concerned, mail it to me. If I'm still posting here in a month, it must have been plume.

????

 

[James84]

Do you have some more pictures? Hard to tell from these (both in terms of angles and quality) Sometimes it's easier to judge from a bigger picture. Were all the flakes uniformly like that or is that cluster an anomaly? Sparkling is usually a good indicator that it's plume but can't be definitive.

I erased all of them. Ill try to get some more under the sunlight for better lighting.

 

[James84]

Seen something like that on few plugs and flakes. As long as it's not "hairy", smell bad, or moving on its own power, I've smoked it. So far I'm not dead. That doesn't mean I'm healthy either.

Yeah no hair seems pretty flat..and it smells wonderful

 

[cshubhra]

The cigar research is in very high probability is wrong. Any organic material if cultured will create a colony of bacteria. There was no control set up.

I rather like @npod ‘s macro photography instead. That shows crystalline structure

Mold usually has a smell. But, sometimes with a really strong tobacco, it gets masked by the tobacco.
However, there is a lot of recent research in cigars that says that what we call plume is actually mold also. What it is exactly is just really not known. I have plume on most of my tobaccos in the cellar now, and really, I can't tell if the tobacco is just naturally more mellow because of the age or if a visible plume make any difference. I am sure, however, that it doesn't make it any sweeter. So, I personally have ruled out that it is some sort of sugar. YMMV

 

[mingc]

The cigar research is in very high probability is wrong. Any organic material if cultured will create a colony of bacteria. There was no control set up.

I rather like @npod ‘s macro photography instead. That shows crystalline structure

How do you control for a culture (if the study in question indeed involved a culture)? They were not conducting an experiment but trying to identify an organic substance, as an empirical matter, like you would a tree (oak or larch?) or an animal (dog or cat?)

 

[cshubhra]

1. Create a culture from another part of the same cigar / pipe tobacco where there is no plume
2. Create a culture from a different cigar / pipe tobacco which does not have plume

If these controls don’t show same / similar bacteria then we can have some confidence that the plume is a bacterial colony

I see problems with these as well as true controls - but as far as I remember the study they proved that plume contains bacteria which is hardly surprising, given that tobacco is a natural organic product. In fact if plume is indeed sugar then it would be natural it will form bacterial colony.

I read the study a few months ago, but I remember that they cultured plume and found bacterial colonies

How do you control for a culture (if the study in question indeed involved a culture)? They were not conducting an experiment but trying to identify an organic substance, as an empirical matter, like you would a tree (oak or larch?) or an animal (dog or cat?)

 

[mingc]

I read the study a few months ago, but I remember that they cultured plume and found bacterial colonies

The only source of the plume-is-bacteria conclusion that I know of is this thread from the Friends of Habanos forum. The study from the Aussie lab they used is not actually posted, however, so I can't tell what techniques they used to identify the bacteria. It could have been purely visual from actual samples as far as I know. I'd love to see the study if it's actually available.

I personally don't think all plume is bacteria. Some are mold certainly, but others certainly look crystalline in structure. They are common in Esoterica blends, which are so goopy and wet fresh that I think the plume are actually crystals of dried topping, like crystalline salt on dried clothes after sweaty activity.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

The only source of the plume-is-bacteria conclusion that I know of is this thread from the Friends of Habanos forum. The study from the Aussie lab they used is not actually posted, however, so I can't tell what techniques they used to identify the bacteria. It could have been purely visual from actual samples as far as I know. I'd love to see the study if it's actually available.

I personally don't think all plume is bacteria. Some certainly look crystalline in structure. They are common in Esoterica blends, which are so goopy and wet fresh that I think the plume are actually crystals of dried topping, like crystalline salt on dried clothes after sweaty activity.

Those are mold, not bacteria. I’m not trying to be that guy, I know it may sound “nitpicky,” but they belong to two completely different kingdoms.

 

[mingc]

Those are mold, not bacteria. I’m not trying to be that guy, I know it may sound “nitpicky,” but they belong to two completely different kingdoms.

You're not being nitpicky. I'm saying what people call plume or bloom can be: (1) mold; (2) bacteria, or (3) crystals or other residue from evaporation.

 

[elnoblecigarro]

Mold usually has a smell. But, sometimes with a really strong tobacco, it gets masked by the tobacco.
However, there is a lot of recent research in cigars that says that what we call plume is actually mold also. What it is exactly is just really not known. I have plume on most of my tobaccos in the cellar now, and really, I can't tell if the tobacco is just naturally more mellow because of the age or if a visible plume make any difference. I am sure, however, that it doesn't make it any sweeter. So, I personally have ruled out that it is some sort of sugar. YMMV

I can say for sure that mold on cigars doesn't necessarily have a smell. I had half a humidor covered in mold one fateful summer (some on humidor itself also). No extra smells. I also smoked those where there was mold only on the wrapper (after wiping them of course) and the taste was fine too. And it was definitely mold.