Pipe Tobacco is no good anymore/better than before

[BriaronBoerum]

As suggested by the contradictory title, I'm kinda confused about comparisons between the quality of currently available tobacco and what was sold 30/50/many years ago. Recent closings, discontinued blends, and a shrinking industry give a strong sense that the best days of pipe tobacco are behind us. On the other hand, I see the work of boutique blenders with new approaches, and practices like cellaring and aging blends, which I understand wasn't really done until a few decades below. I wonder if at least some of the golden age is based on nostalgia, higher social acceptance back in the day, and other factors -- no disrespect meant to all those with far greater experience and knowledge than me.

What I've read online is that historically, pipe tobacco was a bulk commodity based on an industrial crop, and that high end blends were based as much on the skill, and the brand name, of the blender, as they were on leaf quality. Or am I mistaken, and blenders had access to high quality leaf grown by dedicated farmers, and no one is growing anything like that any more? Like many folks, I draw comparisons with subjects I already know something about; in my case craft spirits and beers. In that industry, a focus on quality ingredients, small production runs, and willingness to experiment have led to a new golden age of high quality drinks. It seems like it should still be possible for today's farmers and blenders to create a product that's at least as good as what was smoked by past generations?

I'm not trying to start a fire here, so to speak, but I'm interested in, and grateful for, everyone's thoughts on this if you'd care to reply. Thanks!

 

[proteus]

To me it's all up to the producer. Tobacco plants gain soil enrichment. So like anything else the soil over time has gotten depleted. Would that affect taste more than say the rainfall and climate of the growing season? I'm thinking like grapes. You have good years and better years. That really isn't about the decade per se but the conditions during that time.

As to aging and production every blender has their own methods so again there isn't a depency upon the day and golden age of tobacco as their is to the blender themselves and the skill. Granted more people back in the day were experienced with blending but if you have a skilled blender and great growing conditions the tobacco will be the best it can be regardless of the decade procured.

 

[litup]

This is a complicated question worth exploring in greater depth but I feel like the words of Charles Dickens apply here:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way--in short, the period was so far like the present period that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

For every person about to come on here and say it was so much better back then, there is going to be another person that says we have never had it so good as we do now. I think they are both right.

 

[Oddball]

I wasn't around back then to know any difference, I've smoked stuff from the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on recently.

The idea of a choice aged OOP tin in my cellar is much more appealing than the idea of opening and smoking said tin. I still buy one from time to time but frankly, I have had so many just down right delightful smokes from fresh tins, I really enjoy what I can get now.


I am still trying to experience the aged tobacco Nirvana. It still hasn't happened. There have been some great smokes of things but they were maybe slightly better than current production tins that are never sold out...


All that being said, I have started opening some of those older tins recently to try and find a little Shangri-La.

The best smoked I've had in the last 12-18 months was probably a toss up between a tin of Sunday Picnic or one of Regents flake. Both 22-23 vintage, both went from meh to wow with a little air time in the jar post tin popping.


I really enjoy this hobby.

 

[woodsroad]

Well, I don't have enough years in this to render a definitive opinion, but...

When the era of hand-picking tobacco ended, so did the practice of selective harvesting, of picking leaf by position and according to ripeness. This more or less coincided with the demise of the tobacco auctions in the US. where manufacturers would compete for the premium crops. And so ended the farmer's work to grow the best crop possible, because their harvest was already sold before it was planted. At the same time, USDA crop subsidies for tobacco were discontinued, as the bottom fell out of the US cigarette market due to consumer's health concerns. A perfect storm of mediocrity.

 

[NookersTheCat]

It's a super complicated question having to do with all the factors already mentioned here and more. Government subsidies, skill of blenders/producers, size and type of the market, etc.
Personally though, I definitely think that *on balance*, it can be said that we are currently declining and probably have been ever since McClelland, give or take. I'm only 31 so I know mostly what I've researched but I also started smoking at 18 so I do have some experience....

I think that the peak of quality, choice, and availability in pipe tobacco was probably somewhere around the time of the internet becoming popular... the 2000's give or take. Because you had an industry that had been reaching its pinnacle for decades clashing with a technology that finally democratized it for all. But after a bit of time the talent of the previous generation started to leave while regulations mounted added to fact that the demand of this "new market" was able to be flooded with blend after blend after nearly identical blend. This lead to the dilution so bad that we are where we are now... taking out the most significant player in this hemisphere.

In short yes, there's still great tobaccos. There will continue to be great tobaccos. But unless we get significant rollbacks to government regulations and significantly more private/small business investment AND innovation AND renewed farming priorities AND significant market growth/popularity increase (not holding my breath) I think we will be muddling through a slow decline *compared to what at one point there previously was* now for decades to come. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[BriaronBoerum]

Well, I don't have enough years in this to render a definitive opinion, but...

When the era of hand-picking tobacco ended, so did the practice of selective harvesting, of picking leaf by position and according to ripeness. This more or less coincided with the demise of the tobacco auctions in the US. where manufacturers would compete for the premium crops. And so ended the farmer's work to grow the best crop possible, because their harvest was already sold before it was planted. At the same time, USDA crop subsidies for tobacco were discontinued, as the bottom fell out of the US cigarette market due to consumer's health concerns. A perfect storm of mediocrity.

The laugh emoji was for the video, thanks for the detailed response!

 

[woodsroad]

While the past decade has seen more brands and blends of pipe tobacco on the market than ever before, that doesn't equate with quality. A nice label will sell a blend, but it does nothing for the quality. I'd rather have a dozen blends of exceedingly delicious quality than 15,000 SKU's of same-old same-old mediocrity.

Unfortunately, most of that quality leaf is simply not available anymore.

 

[sablebrush52]

Well, I don't have enough years in this to render a definitive opinion, but...

When the era of hand-picking tobacco ended, so did the practice of selective harvesting, of picking leaf by position and according to ripeness. This more or less coincided with the demise of the tobacco auctions in the US. where manufacturers would compete for the premium crops. And so ended the farmer's work to grow the best crop possible, because their harvest was already sold before it was planted. At the same time, USDA crop subsidies for tobacco were discontinued, as the bottom fell out of the US cigarette market due to consumer's health concerns. A perfect storm of mediocrity.

Woodsroad has hit the nail squarely on the head. Machine harvesting is efficient but it mixes ripened leaf with not ready for prime time leaf. So as a result, quality has dropped.
That doesn’t mean that there’s no quality leaf being grown, but it appears to be largely in other countries where hand picking still continues and the leaf develops bolder flavors.

Having been a pipe smoker since 1971, I can attest that in my experience the overall quality has declined, but every era has its wins and losses. Crap has always been around. The average blends of the ‘70’s and 80’s had a richness and smoothness that is very rare today, and you won’t experience it by picking up a 30 or 40 year old tin of legendary “whatsis”.

Modern versions of age old blends are faint ghosts of the originals.

On the other hand, there are many blend types, like matured Red Virginias, that came into their own later, and inventiveness has brought a great many interesting and enjoyable blends to market in recent times.

There’s also increased access to imported blends made by talented blenders, using empire leaf, that are excellent.

The other part of this is that people imprint on the products available to them. They enjoy the blends they have and calibrate between excellent and meh with those blends.

It’s kinda useless to bang on about long gone tobaccos. You’re not going to be smoking them.

The best of times and the worst of times relate to your times.

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

Well all I can say is that I enjoy pipe smoking and much prefer it over cigarettes. In many ways I’ve drastically cut out cig smoking from my life over the past 5-10 years. So, I missed the “good ol’ days.” I’m okay with that and have no regrets getting into this hobby late.

 

[Servant King]

It seems like it should still be possible for today's farmers and blenders to create a product that's at least as good as what was smoked by past generations

One would think so, but only in theory. As far as I can see, the main impediments to this hypothetical situation becoming a reality are excessive regulation, destruction of the dollar's purchasing power due to inflation, and just the general degradation of the human species' overall brain function. Anyone who has tried to get someone else to perform the simplest of tasks these days, only to find the job absolutely botched beyond reason, will know what I'm talking about.

I started smoking a pipe right around the time Peterson was scooping up the salvaged Dunhill blends. So yeah, I missed out on many decades, and a veritable cornucopia of blends that have about as much chance of coming back to life as my grandparents. As Jesse points out, weeping and moaning about the loss of [insert blend here] will yield no fruit at all, so why waste the energy? What's done is done. In my short time however, I have also cellared feverishly in anticipation of times like these, and similarly, what's done is done. I have my lifetime supply, and therefore, blessedly, one less thing to harbor feelings of regret about.

As @telescopes pontificated on recently here, new blenders will inevitably step in to overcome the aforementioned obstacles, and the art will continue. Whether they will succeed at this task is anyone's guess; same goes for the quality/quantity of the product they can turn out in the process. My cellar is locked in though, so if their efforts come up short, it won't adversely affect me in any meaningful way, at least that I can discern. But for the sake of those who are new to pipe smoking (or simply haven't cellared), I hope there will be a successful breakthrough in the art of blending, at least to a degree enough to keep the hobby on life support just a little while longer. Kind of like the nose in the 1973 Woody Allen film, Sleeper.

Just my five cents. Notice I have adjusted for inflation...

 

[PaulDM]

The loss of syrian latakia supposedly materially and negatively impacted the quality of English blends. I never smoked syrian latakia so I don’t know how valid that is. I hear that as perique has become more scarce vapers have suffered.

My sense is that small growers and blenders (like Mclelland) have become more scarce and mass production has increased.

Taken together, I would guess that overall quality of pipe tobacco has decreases but there are still pockets of high quality out there.

 

[NookersTheCat]

One would think so, but only in theory. As far as I can see, the main impediments to this hypothetical situation becoming a reality are excessive regulation, destruction of the dollar's purchasing power due to inflation, and just the general degradation of the human species' overall brain function. Anyone who has tried to get someone else to perform the simplest of tasks these days, only to find the job absolutely botched beyond reason, will know what I'm talking about.

I started smoking a pipe right around the time Peterson was scooping up the salvaged Dunhill blends. So yeah, I missed out on many decades, and a veritable cornucopia of blends that have about as much chance of coming back to life as my grandparents. As Jesse points out, weeping and moaning about the loss of [insert blend here] will yield no fruit at all, so why waste the energy? What's done is done. In my short time however, I have also cellared feverishly in anticipation of times like these, and similarly, what's done is done. I have my lifetime supply, and therefore, blessedly, one less thing to harbor feelings of regret about.

As @telescopes pontificated on recently here, new blenders will inevitably step in to overcome the aforementioned obstacles, and the art will continue. Whether they will succeed at this task is anyone's guess; same goes for the quality/quantity of the product they can turn out in the process. My cellar is locked in though, so if their efforts come up short, it won't adversely affect me in any meaningful way, at least that I can discern. But for the sake of those who are new to pipe smoking (or simply haven't cellared), I hope there will be a successful breakthrough in the art of blending, at least to a degree enough to keep the hobby on life support just a little while longer. Kind of like the nose in the 1973 Woody Allen film, Sleeper.

Just my five cents. Notice I have adjusted for inflation...

I agree on basically everything you've said, as usual. It's just the middle portion that ticks me off with some members on here and other forums (not you ofc, you bring up having had the opportunity to cellar what you've been able as a blessing as I try to do too... and it's been my exact personal strategy as well since getting caught thin on McClelland).

But I just can't stand how *some members* use it as a cudgel... breaking into every thread of someone (almost always new to the hobby) with a snarky bone-dry "WELL I GOT MINE SO I COULDN'T CARE LESS" attitude. I mean again, don't get me wrong I'm a prepper (some would say hoarder ) myself lol, so the cellaring/collecting part of this past-time is one of the biggest turn-ons there is for me... but it's also the dick measuring contest/superiority complex some people make it into (along with the deleterious effects it can have on whipsawing the demand side of the supply chain) that makes me nauseous... and roll my eyes... maybe nauseous from rolling my eyes so hard, lmao

 

[Zeno Marx]

In my opinion, to streamline a long and worthless diatribe, English blends aren't as good as yesteryear because of the loss of Syrian latakia (by the way, the Latakia Governorate has been in the news lately), but Virginias have been every bit as good as they have been in the past. That is, until McClelland closed shop. McClelland bridged the old and new worlds together. And that's not to say that...say, Escudo...old blends still being made today are as good as they were many years ago. They aren't, but other blends picked up that slack.

and to echo other users, you can't judge either of these things from a cellared tin. It just doesn't work like that. You'll have to take us older smokers at our collective word.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

It's on the way down, like the quality of most everything else...

 

[NookersTheCat]

(by the way, the Latakia Governorate has been in the news lately)

Oh what a beautiful fantasy haha... unfortunately from what I've read/understand, even if a stable, free-market minded, tobacco & Syrian-Heritage friendly government were established yesterday (spoiler alert, it wasn't lol)... it would still take somewhere between 30 years and never for Syrian Lat to make a comeback simply because management of the necessary smokewoods and the knowledge-base of manufacture are both in such a pitiful state, if not practically extinct :/

 

[NookersTheCat]

like the quality of most everything else...

Lol, another excellent point. At the end of the day this product (while especially reviled by regulators) is not in a vacuum.. just look at the state of the world in general for a barometer of things to come...

 

[Servant King]

I agree on basically everything you've said, as usual. It's just the middle portion that ticks me off with some members on here and other forums (not you ofc, you bring up having had the opportunity to cellar what you've been able as a blessing as I try to do too... and it's been my exact personal strategy as well since getting caught thin on McClelland).

But I just can't stand how *some members* use it as a cudgel... breaking into every thread of someone (almost always new to the hobby) with a snarky bone-dry "WELL I GOT MINE SO I COULDN'T CARE LESS" attitude. I mean again, don't get me wrong I'm a prepper (some would say hoarder ) myself lol, so the cellaring/collecting part of this past-time is one of the biggest turn-ons there is for me... but it's also the dick measuring contest/superiority complex some people make it into (along with the deleterious effects it can have on whipsawing the demand side of the supply chain) that makes me nauseous... and roll my eyes... maybe nauseous from rolling my eyes so hard, lmao

Yeah I hear you loud and clear, the snark is uncalled for, and counterproductive, really. I'd be willing to wager that more than half of those types glean way more enjoyment bragging about their cache than actually imbibing in it. It's embarrassing, and it reeks of poorly veiled insecurity.

+1 on the cellaring, for sure! It's eerily enjoyable, almost as much as actually smoking it. Even leaving aside the availability element for a moment, I would've loved to have gotten in on stuff before the hyperinflation of the last few years, but that's neither here nor there. At least I have the stuff I like, and all I can do is lead by example; anyone just getting into pipe smoking now won't necessarily have their tastes sussed out in time to know whether or not to squirrel away some of these disappearing MacB blends. In my opinion, there isn't a single attribute of pipe smoking that should be rushed. My hope is just what I said before, that new blenders step up to the plate, get it right, and keep the hobby alive.

BTW, I think this may be the first time in the history of this forum that turn-ons, dick measuring, and nauseous have all been mentioned in the same post...but I could be wrong. Maybe a mod could confirm this?

 

[DeerparkDays]

Well all I can say is that I enjoy pipe smoking and much prefer it over cigarettes. In many ways I’ve drastically cut out cig smoking from my life over the past 5-10 years. So, I missed the “good ol’ days.” I’m okay with that and have no regrets getting into this hobby late.

Sorry guys……a little bit off topic…..man your pic always cracks me up. I know its probably not you, but I’m going to think it is, even if you say its not, as thinking of that fellow walking down the street with a pipe just cracks me up and brings a bit of joy to my day!

OK……back to the thread and sorry!

 

[sablebrush52]

The loss of syrian latakia supposedly materially and negatively impacted the quality of English blends. I never smoked syrian latakia so I don’t know how valid that is. I hear that as perique has become more scarce vapers have suffered.

My sense is that small growers and blenders (like Mclelland) have become more scarce and mass production has increased.

Taken together, I would guess that overall quality of pipe tobacco has decreases but there are still pockets of high quality out there.

I don't think that the loss of Syrian Latakia affected the quality of English blends. Even before it went away, blenders were using Cyprian for it's particular qualities and sometimes blend the two. For those who loved the wine quality in Syrian, the loss is an issue. For others, it really isn't.
Perique is more expensive than other components so companies seeking to squeeze out an extra 15¢ per tin have been cutting back on it or subbing. As has been pointed out in Leonard Worzel's interviews, there's a high margin of profit in tobacco, so it doesn't seem like it would be busting the bank.
I've had the pleasure to chatting with Mark Ryan a number of times and it's interesting that he found the Acadian Perique more reliable in terms of quality than the St James. And, the St James is cut with Acadian. I miss Rimboché. That was an excellent no frills Va/Per.