Pipe Tobacco Consolidation and Conseqences

[Sethology12]

Sutliff+Mac Baren, Laudisi and Cornell and Diehl, k and k and many of our favorite European blends. Pipe tobaccos are plentiful and varied in the current era, but manufactured by a handful of remaining behemoths of the industry. This obviously results in a "dumbing down" of recipes using all of the same sources of constituent tobaccos, maybe takes some of the spirit that was endemic to the original producers tobacco away, and makes it very hard to taste anything truly new. However, could this continued merging actually work to our benefit? Wine-makers, cigar producers, and Marijuana companies often have their own plots of land in which they can cultivate the flowers of their final products. This allows them a tremendous amount of direct control. Pipe tobacco heretofore has not had this luxury. Perhaps as companies continue to consolidate and tobacco becomes increasingly difficult to harvest selectively we will see Sutliff-Macbaren or Cornell and diehl-laudisi expand their purview into growing as well as blending. Cornell and Diehl has already sort of moved towards this with their partnership with 31 Farms and their perique. What do you guys think? Is consolidation a death knell or a potential revival- allowing pipe tobacco companies to be beholden to themselves rather than the prevailing winds of cigarette manufacturers yields?

 

[Daddypants]

If it were my business, I would 100% want to own the means of production from the farm all the way to the retailer. It’s the smart move.

 

[BriarLinedMeer]

If it were my business, I would 100% want to own the means of production from the farm all the way to the retailer. It’s the smart move.

Sure fire way to ensure quality!

 

[rick3wood]

is there enough business (sale of pipe tobacco) to warrant buying land and growing tobacco..doubt it that’s probably why the big guns havent done it

 

[fireground_piper]

The consolidation of manufacturer isn’t really the thing to worry about, it’s the disappearing of the farm variety. There are strains that just aren’t out there anymore being farmed, which I think is a larger issue.

 

[Sethology12]

is there enough business (sale of pipe tobacco) to warrant buying land and growing tobacco..doubt it that’s probably why the big guns havent done it

For a handful of major companies? I think there definitely is enough business to warrant it.

The consolidation of manufacturer isn’t really the thing to worry about, it’s the disappearing of the farm variety. There are strains that just aren’t out there anymore being farmed, which I think is a larger issue.

Yeah well miss out on some special strains but at least we'd have something quality and controlled to smoke.

 

[Servant King]

I think that even at behemoth stage, these companies are doing whatever they can to stay in existence which, considering the prevailing modern attitude toward tobacco as a whole (regardless of what "form" it comes in--to extremist zealots, it's all one and the same!), is never anything but an uphill battle that under no circumstances ever gets any easier.

 

[Sethology12]

I think that even at behemoth stage, these companies are doing whatever they can to stay in existence which, considering the prevailing modern attitude toward tobacco as a whole (regardless of what "form" it comes in--to extremist zealots, it's all one and the same!), is never anything but an uphill battle that under no circumstances ever gets any easier.

Of course. But in many states cigar taxes are lenient and have even been rolled back. This is because they are not being lumped in with the big tobacco industries like pipe tobacco is. As pipe tobacco is more or less reliant upon big tobaccos continued existence. If pipe tobacco companies could control the whole spectrum of logistics and get off the heels of cigarette companies they'd probably be more recognized as a seperate entity altogether

 

[warren]

If pipe tobacco companies could control the whole spectrum of logistics and get off the heels of cigarette companies they'd probably be more recognized as a seperate entity altogether

Why take on such a economic model? A recipe for economic suicide.

 

[Sethology12]

Why take on such a economic model? A recipe for economic suicide.

I'm pretty young and ignorant to some of the realities here. I suppose I was simply thinking about vineyards and their wines and Marijuana farms and how they are all self contained ecosystems from farm to table as it were. I figured it's possible to translate this model to pipe tobacco if things become especially bleak

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I fancy myself a reasonably savvy businessman. Unless it were absolutely essential to protect my core business, I wouldn't want anything to do with the farming end of things. In most cases, subbing out as much as possible is the best business plan.

 

[Doctor Chopper]

Sounds good in theory, but it is a big investment in an unpredictable business.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Only a minute percentage of dark fired Kentucky goes to pipe tobacco. It's cash cow is chewing tobacco and still then only breaking even. The costs of production for the relatively small amounts used in pipe tobacco wouldn't be cost efficient and blends containing it would skyrocket.

 

[Sethology12]

Only a minute percentage of dark fired Kentucky goes to pipe tobacco. It's cash cow is chewing tobacco and still then only breaking even. The costs of production for the relatively small amounts used in pipe tobacco wouldn't be cost efficient and blends containing it would skyrocket.

In Virginia I hardly ever see anyone chew or dip. Gotta wonder where they all are

 

[Chasing Embers]

In Virginia I hardly ever see anyone chew or dip. Gotta wonder where they all are

Know many tobacco users? In the US, the Midwest and South are the biggest consumers of chewing tobacco, but globally, China and India are the biggest customers.

 

[fireground_piper]

Yeah well miss out on some special strains but at least we'd have something quality and controlled to smoke.

Sure but you aren’t paying $12 per tin if things ever go that route in America. The cigar makers who control their own crops charge what……$20, $30, $60, $80 per cigar for that premium. Would you pay $75 per tin in America as a cost increase unrelated to taxes?

 

[romaso]

Consolidation is good here! Prior to this, some pipe tobacco companies were tiny divisions of huge cigarette companies and got no attention. The cigarette companies decided to sell them off, so now you have pipe focused companies, the largest being STG, Mac Baren, C&D, and maybe Dan in Germany and Gawith in England (others?). It was a very good thing!

 

[sablebrush52]

Sure fire way to ensure quality!

Conglomerates pursuing the best quality? More likely the pursuing the most profit.

I don't see this as a viable step. Tobaccos are grown all over the world. Owning that would be a logistical nightmare. It also puts manufacturers at risk for bad growing years that might pertain to their holdings rather than being able to pick and choose from what's available. Sometimes things are best left decentralized.

 

[LeafErikson]

Sutliff+Mac Baren, Laudisi and Cornell and Diehl, k and k and many of our favorite European blends. Pipe tobaccos are plentiful and varied in the current era, but manufactured by a handful of remaining behemoths of the industry. This obviously results in a "dumbing down" of recipes using all of the same sources of constituent tobaccos, maybe takes some of the spirit that was endemic to the original producers tobacco away, and makes it very hard to taste anything truly new. However, could this continued merging actually work to our benefit? Wine-makers, cigar producers, and Marijuana companies often have their own plots of land in which they can cultivate the flowers of their final products. This allows them a tremendous amount of direct control. Pipe tobacco heretofore has not had this luxury. Perhaps as companies continue to consolidate and tobacco becomes increasingly difficult to harvest selectively we will see Sutliff-Macbaren or Cornell and diehl-laudisi expand their purview into growing as well as blending. Cornell and Diehl has already sort of moved towards this with their partnership with 31 Farms and their perique. What do you guys think? Is consolidation a death knell or a potential revival- allowing pipe tobacco companies to be beholden to themselves rather than the prevailing winds of cigarette manufacturers yields?

Vertical integration makes sense for sure. Growing tobacco is an entirely different business model than that of a blending house. Cannabis is horticulture and tobacco is, for the most part, industrial-scale agriculture. The former is much easier to manage as the scale is smaller. Smaller vineyards can also be more easily managed if all of the grapes are vertically integrated into a winery.

 

[bullet08]

Last 30 years, I have seen most tobacco farms going away around here. There are still few that I see, but they are usually small in scale. Even the warehouse that used to auction tobacco has disappeared. Now it's a self storage business. I don't think it's a good time to jump into tobacco farming. And I live in NC.