Pipe Or Cigar Tobacco
- Thread starter ignaciojn
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Cosmic I have few questions if you don't mind.
Also, how does the priming affect the leaves? Do you do that for the tobacco you are growing for pipe smoking?
Another question is, once I read that the Turkish tobacco was more flavorful because of the sun. In order to protect its leaves from the sun the plant was covering them with a wax, thus causing them to be more flavorful. How true is that?
So, does different countries use different curing methods for their leaves? Simply, does Cuba use A method and Nicaragua B method and Dominican C method? I have always thought the curing methods for cigar leaves were the same; harvest the leaves, air cure them, then ferment. Thus the soil was the main reason of the flavor profiles. Cuban cigars for instance has that earthy, bold, full flavor, Dominican cigars tend to be silky, smooth, Nicaraguans are usually close to Cubans but more spicy and intense, etc.
Also, how does the priming affect the leaves? Do you do that for the tobacco you are growing for pipe smoking?
Another question is, once I read that the Turkish tobacco was more flavorful because of the sun. In order to protect its leaves from the sun the plant was covering them with a wax, thus causing them to be more flavorful. How true is that?
The environment does have an affect on flavor, as we see has happened as the tobacco plant was spread across the globe. Different places has evolved different varietals. But, the way it is cured can also have a huge impact on how it tastes. And, since the same plant can be cured in different ways to produce different flavors from the same plant, it has the most impact, IMO.
As to whether Cuba cures the same way Nicaragua does, is a very genera and broad questionl. What about two different Nicaraguan farmers? Two different barns, with different humidities, or even one using a high tech kiln to color cure? I am probably least informed on cigar leaf than any of the other leaf, especially on a national level of cigar making. But, it does stand to reason that if cigars are 100% natural, that there would be differences in flavors from year to year, region to region, even farmer to farmer. But, I am certain that the cigar leaf buyers would “grade” based on the flavors they needed. Such as McClelland looked for the one specific flavor in a Red Virginia. While there were lots of Reds to choose from, none were fitting their exact needs.
When we talk about quality, this is what we mean. A quality is a specific flavor that the buyer wants, not necessarily “better” leaf, not if it doesn’t have the “qualitie”s they are looking for is it a “bad” tasting leaf. It means that it just doesn’t have the exact taste the buyer is looking for.
If I am shopping for a vehicle with the quality of being quiet, yet strong enough to pull a trailer, a Porsche does not meet my needs. It is powerful, but not in the way you need to be able to pull a trailer. Does that make it a worse vehicle than a Chevy Pickup truck?
As for Turkish... does the sun beat down harder in some places? I fail to see how this could happen, but it does “feel” harder on our skin because of humidity, altitude, and our sweat glands, etc... I have grown it one year, and I didn’t notice it being waxy. Jitterbug has grown more of this plant than me, and suggests using really poor soil with less nutrients and less water.
As to whether Cuba cures the same way Nicaragua does, is a very genera and broad questionl. What about two different Nicaraguan farmers? Two different barns, with different humidities, or even one using a high tech kiln to color cure? I am probably least informed on cigar leaf than any of the other leaf, especially on a national level of cigar making. But, it does stand to reason that if cigars are 100% natural, that there would be differences in flavors from year to year, region to region, even farmer to farmer. But, I am certain that the cigar leaf buyers would “grade” based on the flavors they needed. Such as McClelland looked for the one specific flavor in a Red Virginia. While there were lots of Reds to choose from, none were fitting their exact needs.
When we talk about quality, this is what we mean. A quality is a specific flavor that the buyer wants, not necessarily “better” leaf, not if it doesn’t have the “qualitie”s they are looking for is it a “bad” tasting leaf. It means that it just doesn’t have the exact taste the buyer is looking for.
If I am shopping for a vehicle with the quality of being quiet, yet strong enough to pull a trailer, a Porsche does not meet my needs. It is powerful, but not in the way you need to be able to pull a trailer. Does that make it a worse vehicle than a Chevy Pickup truck?
As for Turkish... does the sun beat down harder in some places? I fail to see how this could happen, but it does “feel” harder on our skin because of humidity, altitude, and our sweat glands, etc... I have grown it one year, and I didn’t notice it being waxy. Jitterbug has grown more of this plant than me, and suggests using really poor soil with less nutrients and less water.
Priming means removing the matured leaves as they mature, as opposed to just harvesting the whole stalk. I do both, as most tobacco farmers do.
The leaves will turn to a pale green/yellow color as they get ready to be harvested. Pulling one too early can give you a whole different flavor, as well as waiting till it is too late. It is a little bit of an artform to how you harvest and cure. It is the same with harvesting cabbage and even spinach. If you get the cabbage when it is greener, you will get a stronger flavor, but chewier leaf, while spinach is much sweeter and crunchy when young, before setting off the spear shaped leaves.
The whole stalk of tobacco is then taken at the end of the season, depending on frost predictions and environmental concerns.
Prime leaves are usually a little less fragrant, like cabbage, but can have more sweet or savory qualities. While the greener leaves of taking the whole stalk can have more intense flavors (mostly because they are the newer leaf set) and may have to be cured differently.
The leaf has to die off, unlike an animal that is dead when the heart stops, a plant can rejuvenate even with roots removed, like when you stick a leaf in the ground to have it set new roots. So, the enzymes have to die off, changing the color. Then you have to remove the ammonia from the initial decay. Then the thing is no longer alive, and it is all about fermentation, and changing starches into sugars. It sounds difficult, but really it's not rocket science when you see how it is done.
Some leaf can be merely cut and hung up to dry for months. Some can be done that way, but is much sweeter if flue cured with heat to speed up the process and make a sweeter leaf. It's like cooking bread. slower cooked bread gives you a chewier bread with a different taste than a quick cooked bread.
It's definitely an art and science... of which I am still exploring. And, like any art, I don't think there is an end to variations that you can get with the curing process.
Some people like shade wrappers for cigars, I have been a fan of sungrown Fuente's SG (Black ribbon) + Ashton VSG's. Exposure to the sun really spices up the wrapper leaf. Environment (sun exposure) can dramatically affect the flavor profile for cigars anyway.
What amazes me most about cigars is that that one layer on the outside has so much impact on the overall taste of the cigar. Russ had posted once that with cigars you get most of your flavor from where the leaf touches your lips.
And, with shading the leaf as it grows, I think any tobacco is affected by a reduction in sun. My semois is really thriving on the side of the bed that gets about half a day's shade from the bamboo growing next to it. The leaves are huge on those plants.
Yup. Wrapper is where's it's at with cigar leaf. The ratio of wrapper to filler is much higher for longesdales and the thinner cigars. FAR more wrapper flavor in a thin cigar.
My absolute favorite non-cuban is a Tatuate Noella. It's a petit corona size and just packed with flavor from the wrapper. Amazing little sticks by Tatoo Pete.
Real cigar hounds don't stick those huge donkey dicks in their mouth jammed full of filler tobacco. Thin to win
My absolute favorite non-cuban is a Tatuate Noella. It's a petit corona size and just packed with flavor from the wrapper. Amazing little sticks by Tatoo Pete.
Real cigar hounds don't stick those huge donkey dicks in their mouth jammed full of filler tobacco. Thin to win
Funny, I find cigar guys to be just as varied about what they like, with looking for new flavors in the leaf as pipe smokers. I have met a few posers. They usually always state that there is only one quality of cigar, and that is set by Cuba. But, when you look at sales of cigars, more money is poured into variety than on people looking for the Cuban experience. I did have one aged Cuban, given to me by Hoosierpipe. It was amazing. But, I am also amazed by a triple ligero, or dark fired, or any of a few other strong leaves that I just love. I did enjoy the hell out of that Cuban, but I just think of it as one of many different types of cigars to enjoy. Some smaller cigars really appeal to me. I also find that the more narrow cigars can be stronger. This is what led me to using wide bowls for the super strong burley blends, instead of narrow bowls. They don't make me as sick in the huge pipes. And, some really wide cigars appeal to me as well. The Asylum 13s in those super wide stogies is amazing to me.
Variety is the spice of life. I am relatively new to cigars, compared to pipes. But, I am lucky to have quite a few really nice cigar humidors close by to visit, run by some pretty classy guys.
I've only been an occasional cigar smoker. When my late wife quit cigarettes, I quit the pipe in solidarity, but would have a cigar on business trips (and told her I did). So I've tried around a bit, and had a Cuban when I got to Toronto for a meeting, and was passed a Cuban in the U.S. now and then. Okay, limited experience, just pure chance. But I have always enjoyed Dominicans by far more than Cubans, at various price levels. Just a fresher, smoother, more refined smoke all the way around, consistently over years. Probably just me.
I've never smoked an actual Cuban, but what I've heard makes me think the Cuban myth can be largely that. Dominicans are good, Royal Jamaica's not too bad, but give me Hondurans/Nicaraguans any time. Hoyo de Monterreys (Honduran version) are good too.
My personal favorite as a brand always been Joya de Nicaragua, with one major exception -- when I worked at John Crouch in the late 70s we got in a true windfall of a shipment of El Cids, from the last batch of Cuban seed to get out before the doors slammed shut. I can't remember where they were then grown, either Honduras or Nicaragua, but they were THE finest cigars I've ever smoked. Broomsticks & panatelas; I smoked one of each & immediately bought 20 boxes of each.
They didn't last long. No more since :crying:
My personal favorite as a brand always been Joya de Nicaragua, with one major exception -- when I worked at John Crouch in the late 70s we got in a true windfall of a shipment of El Cids, from the last batch of Cuban seed to get out before the doors slammed shut. I can't remember where they were then grown, either Honduras or Nicaragua, but they were THE finest cigars I've ever smoked. Broomsticks & panatelas; I smoked one of each & immediately bought 20 boxes of each.
They didn't last long. No more since :crying:
Not all Cubans. I dated a lovely girl from Havana long ago, and she had a scent much like roses. Tasted great, too, though it's hard to describe.
For me there's Cubans and then the rest. Now that being said, the Toscano Originale is, for me, the best quality to price ratio cigar and I get to feel like I'm Clint Eastwood.
While I don't like a Cuban brand in particular, for me the "hype" is true. The mix of soil, tobacco seed and Cuban know how, is hard to beat. A lot of those Honduran, Nicaraguan and Mexican cigar blends have benefited from the exile of Cuban tobacco growers and cigar makers.
One such brand is the Mexican Revolution advertised to be made with a Cuban seed strain. The flavor and strength profile resembles the Cuban Partagas line to me, so be warned, it's strong and full bodied.
While I don't like a Cuban brand in particular, for me the "hype" is true. The mix of soil, tobacco seed and Cuban know how, is hard to beat. A lot of those Honduran, Nicaraguan and Mexican cigar blends have benefited from the exile of Cuban tobacco growers and cigar makers.
One such brand is the Mexican Revolution advertised to be made with a Cuban seed strain. The flavor and strength profile resembles the Cuban Partagas line to me, so be warned, it's strong and full bodied.
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